10 Most Influential Pakistanis since 1947

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by 1137moiz, Aug 31, 2013.

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  1. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

    Jun 30, 2011
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    Mainly I mean politically, but can extend perhaps to other fields as well. Influential in terms of influence, not whether it's positive or negative

    I dunno about the list I'd make, but it would definitely have Ayub Khan, Zulfiqar Bhutto, Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq and Abdul-Qadeer Khan in it. Probably, because he's been very influential in recent times, somebody like Abul-Alaa Maududi who was also involved in politics. The reason I don't have Muhammad Jinnah as an automatic selection is his death in 1948, but you could still make a case for him
     
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  2. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Noone greater than Imran Khan!!!
     
  3. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

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    I asked about influence, not greatness. Though Immy K may qualify
     
  4. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    Immy bhai has great influence on upcoming cricketers in 90s.. they looked at him, idealised him before picked for national team.. so many players when asked, answered that they were inspired from Imran.

    Also Imran might not become PM of Pakistan, but he has already done his job. Political awareness nd politicising the youth is mostly because of him..

    So yeah he has been influential and inspirational.
     
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  5. Desi_Joker
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    Desi_Joker Tracer Bullet

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    That and Imran Khan inspired many people who had never voted before in their lives to step out and vote for change and a new Pakistan. Definitely an inspiring figure.
     
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  6. Don Corleone
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    Don Corleone Kaptaan

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  7. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    Surprised no one mentioned Salman Taseer :p
     
  8. Major
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    Major Cornered Tiger

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    Salman Taseer! The guy had guts to defend a poor person against the blasphemy law.. A true shaheed!
     
  9. Energy
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    Energy Cornered Tiger

    Apr 22, 2012
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    Maulana Edhi, Abdus Salaam, Imran Khan, Zulfiqar Bhutto, Abdul Qadeer Khan, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

    Jahangir Khan can also be included even though the influence hasn't been as how it should have been.
     
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  10. Pakistanalltheway
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    Pakistanalltheway Smooth Operator

    Jul 16, 2012
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    No mentions of Afridi ?
    So disappointed :p
     
  11. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    The crony of Zardari his partner in crime.
     
  12. Victorious Pakistan
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    Victorious Pakistan Smooth Operator

    Feb 29, 2012
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    In a country full of dishonesty and trouble it is difficult to find such people who have given everything at their disposal for the good of the people and country. Even if you was to put Pakistan aside, you would hardly find people like him in the world.
    The way he lives, the way he goes out and continues to help those in need is just the signs of an absolutely terrific person. Even at his age now, when most people would look to take care of their families and rest he goes out to serve the people who are more needy.
    -What he has built has served the country in it's darkest times, and continues to do so. Rarely will you find such a person, if he is not an inspiration for people, then nobody is.

    You could dig and delve into the History of Pakistan and find people who have been very influential in different fields of life, but in the modern era it's hard to find someone as influential and inspirational as Abdul Sattar Edhi.
     
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  13. Major
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    Major Cornered Tiger

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  14. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

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    In case of being influential, they don't need to be great, I guess one can imagine generals, mullahs, politicians, cricketers and musicians would be the most influential.

    Zia - He literally transformed a liberal and vibrant society into an intolerant bunch of morons, using religion as a tool to achieve his and his friends goals. We have never recovered ever since.

    Bhutto - Most influential political leader of Pakistan, of course he had some serious flaws which led to his downfall. From Imran Khan to nawaz Sharif to his own daughter and grandchildren, everyone wants to be Bhutto.

    Madoodi - this guy helped make a generation which resulted in Zia. Rest is history.

    Nusrat - One of the most influential musician of not only Pakistan but South Asia. Even today I hear some random song of India and Pakistan and I find some similarity with Nusrat music. Nusrat created a generation of fusion in this part of the world.

    Imran Khan - I never saw Imran play cricket, but I grew up watching a team which was bound to win a match from the jaws of defeat, Imran inspired that team. Imran inspired a generation which inspired the next generation. Imran keeps on inspiring the generation after them, this is going to be the most epic one.

    Edhi - I was once told a story when Imran Khan was at his peak, and wherever he went, he used to be the center of attraction. Once during a party Imran stood up and shook hands with Edhi when he got to know that he is also present. Edhi is not just a person anymore, it's the benchmark of social welfare system in Pakistan.

    Afridi - like it or not, he is probably the most popular and loved cricketer of Pakistan after Imran Khan. Afridi fits the bill of the current generation of ideal Pakistani, half mullah, talented but unpredictable, mostly emotional decisions, load mouth, and some match winning performances. Believe me or not Afridi could sell a bikini and panty in Pakistan right now and he would still be loved.

    Noor jehan - the undisputedly the most Influential Pakistani female singer.

    Junaid jamshed - in music, after Nusrat I would have said junoon or some other bunch of bands but when it comes to individuals, I think jj as a singer and later on as a personality have inspired alot of people. His leaving music to embrace supposedly true Islam has shown the polarization of our society. To some he is a confused individual and to many he has seen the light which they also wanto see.

    Wasim akram/Waqar younis - both of them could have been the most popular cricketers after Imran had it not been the match fixing which may not have over shadowed their career, but it certainly tainted their next generation of cricketers and cricket team.

    Closely missed, miandad and saqlain mushtaq.
     
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  15. Don Corleone
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    Don Corleone Kaptaan

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  16. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    "...Transformed a liberal and vibrant society." :rofl

    The fictions Pakistanis cook up to deny and negate the truth of their people is sans pareil. Inimitable, if you will.

    Like one person can *ever* transform the orientation of a society permanently. The orientation that has been acquired over a period of centuries.

    Hitler was probably more ideologically driven and incomparably more efficient and effective in implementation of his ideology than Zia could ever be. And yet, the entire ideological structure of National Socialism and Hitler collapsed as soon as the war got over.

    The closer truth is that Pakistan never was liberal and vibrant. Zia read the character of the Pakistani people better than most and gave it the official sanction, moved the fundamentalism of the Pakistani people from the streets to the legislature and courts and all other seats of power. He recognized Pakistani people for what they truly were, conservative and fundamentalist muslims.
     
  17. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

    Jun 30, 2011
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    Apart from disagreeing with your depictions of said individuals (I don't like either, which is an understatement in Bhutto's case who made Zia look like an angel comparatively) I completely agree. And of course for influence (largely bad imho) both would also make my list
     
  18. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    So you are saying within the lines that conservative & fundamental Muslims are bad?
     
  19. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

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    Apart from the rest of the crap that your post is filled with, I do agree we weren't a "liberal and vibrant society" before Zia, who has been made a convenient scapegoat in modern times not just for his own but for good old "martyr" Bhutto's sins
     
  20. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    I'll leave that for you to interpret. ;-)
     
  21. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    I am amazed at the ignorance of some when they use the term conservative & fundamental to describe in their opinion some bad Muslims. They are so ignorant of the fact that these two attributes are the actual bases of Islam. Islam is against change (as in our religion) so we are conservative and we have a central base (Quran, our holy Prophets & our ALLAH) so we are fundamentalists. If any Muslim claims that he is not such then I will advise him to look again at his imaan he is missing something a very important part of the religion.
     
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  22. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    To comment of Muslims or Islam you first need to know about it and then make some comment.
     
  23. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

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    I never liked the term "fundamentalist". As most history students will tell you, it applies to an early 20th century (I think) brand of Protestant Christianity. There's no such thing, strictly speaking, as a fundamentalist Catholic or a fundamentalist Jew or a fundamentalist Muslim for that matter.

    I think people (wrongly) use it in regards to extremist. There is a world of difference between a conservative and extremist Muslim, just like there is a world of difference between a liberal and extremist Muslim.

    I don't think Zia was an extremist, and I do think (by the accounts of both most of his non-PPP critics and his admirers and neutrals) that he was a personally sincere Muslim, but I also think he very cleverly exploited Islamic sentiments to try and build a broad base of support for his dictatorship (again, Bhutto did the same when he thought it would suit him, so too a lesser extent have "daughter of the east" Benazir and Nawaz Sharif). I don't actually mind Zia as much as most people seem to, I think on balance he was no worse (in the short run anyway) than most of our leaders though I think his efforts to impose a very strict sharia were rigid/heavy-handed at best and self-defeating in any case. The support for the Afghan Mujahedine was definitely a huge plus (for which I guess a lot of credit must go to Akhtar Abdur-Rahman), and for people to claim that extremism in Pakistan was an inevitable result is just lazy and inaccurate thinking in my view.
     
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  24. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    Could you say something more meaningful? One has to know about rodents, sex, drugs etc before one makes comments on it. It goes for *everything*, muslims or islam is not some special case.

    Unless you are saying you practise double standards - you demand people only comment on islam if they know about it but otherwise make flippant remarks about rest of the things even if they don't know anything about it. Is that what you are saying?
     
  25. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    I am not saying this. But in your statement above I could see as I am not blind you made a very sweeping generalization (which was wrong in the first place) of Pakistanis and trying to prove that they were extremists from the start. For your info there is a very big difference between extremism & fundamentalism.

    I said you should be better equipped on the subject before commenting on it because religion is not a joke for any Muslim. I will personally not give a damn if you comment anything on rodents, sex, drugs etc., but if you comment without any info on my religion I will object to that. Hope you got my point.
     
  26. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    IMRAN KHAN - the greatest human to ever set foot on earth doesnt want to be shit bhutto. bhutto was a nobody. his daughter looted the country. his daughters husband has looted the country he is a curse on Pakistan this bhutto and his dynasty his grandchildren are preparing to loot Pakistan. Whereas Imran Khan - the prince of Pakistan is the biggest blessing of God on people of Pakistan!!
     
  27. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    So which sweeping generalization do you agree with? Were pakistanis liberal and vibrant before Zia? Or were they conservative and fundamentalist? Let me know.

    And for your info, there is no difference. Your wibbling notwithstanding.

    So what's your point? Why should I care that you care about your religion? I don't expect you to care about things I care about. Why do you expect me to care about yours? If you start caring about subjects I care about ( sex and rodents and subversive literature) and promise not to make ignorant comment about them, maybe I'll consider your proposal.

    Even then we'll have a problem. Who on earth appointed you as the arbiter of "info on islam". You're not. So there.

    Make one, ffs.
     
  28. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    LMAO!

    And apparently it's Indians who worship Sachin. Hahahahahahahaha!
     
  29. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

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    Again, your attempt at pithiness and abruptness fails to hide a complete lack of knowledge. As per your view as I take it, Islamic attitudes are divided into "liberal and vibrant", which you deny ever existed in Pakistan, and "fundamentalist and conservative". Even those who use the term "Fundamentalist" for Islamic groups, which does not apply strictly speaking to any religion outside Protestant Christianity (whose literalist fundamentals it holds very close links with), do not attempt, as you so clumsily have, to equate it with extremism.

    One simple example of many is the Afghan wars since 1979. Most observers identify the Taliban as extremists (despite the disconcerting number of "moderate Talibs" who pop up time and again in the top brass of the original movement, but that's an argument for another day). Yet they identify the Taliban's "moderate" opponents/rivals--which include chaps like Burhanuddin Rabbani, Ahmad Shah Massoud, Yunis Khalisi and Mohammad Mohammadi--as fundamentalists (i.e. conservatives). So which is it, fundamentalist or extremist (or both)?

    There's literally dozens of examples throughout Islamic history and in the present day. Salahuddin Ayyubi (Saladin), probably the most respected and decent medieval Islamic commander, was by no means a liberal; in fact he was a strict Muslim who nowadays may be called a "conservative" or (incorrectly, but anyway) "Islamic fundamentalist". But he wasn't an extremist, and was more tolerant than most more liberal Abbasid caliphs of the time (such as Nasir Ahmed b. Hasan).

    Same, in fact, with the vast majority of the Muslim world's more historically respected personalities; not many were liberals (only one I can really think of are some of the Mughals), and none were extremists. The entire debate about Syria's opposition involves the risk of giving weapons to extremists (Al Qaeda) rather than "conservatives" or "Islamic fundamentalists" (the majority of the rest of the opposition, which in any case have proven they're not extremists by allying with non-Muslim Syrians like George Sabra). Your comment, poorly veiled in snark, just reveals a fundamental lack of knowledge about the issue.
     
  30. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Go look up in the dictionary the meaning of conservatism, fundamentalism & extremism. I know sheeple like you will believe in everything negative uttered by media regarding Islam and Muslims but that does not mean that it is true. It is very evident from your posts that there are glasses of hatred on your eyes. I made my point very clear but you can't see it.
     
  31. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    :clap

    Ladies & Gentlemen I present to you the Champion of Generalization.



    This is his personal views and you are judging all Pakistanis according to it.
     
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  32. Chishti
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    Chishti Formerly 'Winsome'

    Jan 27, 2012
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    Hazrat Khwaja Muhammad Qamar ud Din Sialvi (RA). He was a great leader of politics and a great spiritual leader. He was a great supporter of Quaid, he was the presedent of PML in Sargodha and contested on the ticket of PML and defeated a hypocrite Khizar Hayat Tiwana who was very powerful person in that era and was against the Pakistan creation and PML. He was the first person who challenged Tiwana and won the first ever seat for PML in Sargodha.
     
  33. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    So I did look up a thesaurus. Guess what? It tells me fundamentalist is synonymous with extremist.

    Infact, now that I think about it, all you have done is make blank, unsubstantiated assertions that fundamental is not equal to extremism. I can provide you the dictionary link as well as explain, why I think fundamentalism does breed extremism and hence why they are synonymous. Where's your homework?
     
  34. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    ex·trem·ist

    /ikˈstrēmist/

    Noun
    A person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, esp. one who resorts to or advocates extreme action.



    fun·da·men·tal·ism

    /ˌfəndəˈmentlˌizəm/

    Noun
    1. A form of Protestant Christianity that upholds belief in the strict and literal interpretation of the Bible.
    2. Strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion or ideology, notably Islam.

    Stop making the childish remarks and see the bold parts. Now tell me are they both the same?
     
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  35. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

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    Aditya Khanna
    ^Again, that dictionary is using the same "protestant"-type logic and applying it to all religions (in fact there's a case that Fundamentalist Protestants are not extremists either, but I don't know enough about that).

    One of the major lifebuoys for extremism is when conservative moderates get called fundamentalists and thence sidelined into the fringe, lumped in with actual extremists with whom they (usually) have pressing differences too. But I don't expect a properly constructed, intelligent reply. Splitting hairs in ASLI-PATHAN 's posts seems to be your area of expertise
     
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  36. 1137moiz
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    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

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    Also, that 2nd definition has been amended in recent years to fit in with the neat self-serving narrative of "liberal versus extremist" Muslims that few serious scholars take seriously anymore. The problem is not "liberal versus extremist", it's "moderate (which can be liberal or conservative) versus extremist". "Liberal versus conservative" is a whole different, much less urgent and generally far less acrimonious matter in the moderate sphere
     
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  37. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    And also ignorants always turn a blind eye to the fact that Islam teaches us to take the middle way. It means it advocates the moderate behavior not the extreme but nowadays it is painted wrongly to serve the interests of certain countries that Islam teaches extremism which is totally wrong.
     
  38. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    Wow.

    That's a BIG world salad. No meat in it though, sorry to say.

    Why does the label fundamental not apply to islam and islamic figures? Sure, the protestants might have originally been labeled with this term. But according to what logic, what semiotic principle, should it stick to them and them alone and not be used to Islam?
     
  39. Aditya Khanna
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    Aditya Khanna Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 4, 2010
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    Umm. There's dictionary meaning and then there's a whole etymology of a word. I direct you here. Have a look at the cognate words, the family of the genus and you'll see, fundamentalism sits very comfortably alongside extremism.
     
  40. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Yes you are right there are extremist people in Muslims too but then there are extremists in every religion, every country of the World. You are saying that there are no extremists in Hindus? But if I say that all Hindus are extremists or all Indians are extremists then I will be wrong as you are wrong when you say all Muslims or all Pakistanis are extremists.
     

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