36 inns 1692 runs 54 avg 80 SR 8 100s. Still parchi?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Shahzad.Firdous, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Thats Imamul Haq for you and not Faisal Iqbal!!
     
  2. Bublu Bhuyan
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    Bublu Bhuyan Youngsta Beauty

    Feb 15, 2010
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    He can definitely do better than his uncle who scored 1 century in 120 international innings against Aus and SA combined.
     
  3. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    This is the problem when you heed towards numbers and totally ignore his first 20-30 balls. In those, he plays way too many dot balls, which brings unnecessary pressure not only on himself, but on Fakhar too and it also doesnt allow Pakistan to gain any sort of initial innings momentum.

    Thats where he needs to improve, in my opinion.
     
  4. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Emerging Player

    Apr 16, 2010
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    Plays mostly selfish innings to impress fans like you with numbers, and hence stand up in his support.

    He has not yet shown the ability to take the war to the enemy and snatch a win from the jaws of defeat.

    Very ordinary batsman and even worse in exposing his batting weaknesses - also needs to have a better control on his mouth.
     
  5. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Jehan criticise karna hota hai i criticize but his numbers are impressive!! I criticized Imam alot earlier but his average is over 50 with a 80 strike rate!!
     
  6. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Emerging Player

    Apr 16, 2010
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    That’s the major problem our selectors go through - they jump into the record books of domestic cricket and pick the top performers.

    Now, don’t get me wrong, this is a very strong criteria - but - it’s not THE ONLY criteria.

    You should have the eye to sense the fire, hunger and talent in a player.

    He is not a brave fighter who is wise enough to know how to take calculated risks and go for a street fight - he doesn’t even have developed this concept yet.


    He is 100% purely focused on removing the “parchi” tag on him by playing innings for his personal numbers and not for team.

    The problem is, he IS a parchi - he would’ve not made it without Inzi.

    So he needs to be brave enough to accept this fact, FORGET about removing this parchi tag and shift his focus to selfishlessly play for the team and for the country.
     
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  7. KingOfDoosra
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    KingOfDoosra Sultan of Swing

    Jun 8, 2012
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    his problem is his strike rate

    i would rather have his average 10 runs down if his sr goes up by 10
     
  8. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    How many against good team?
     
  9. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
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    so you want another Fakhar who fails most of the time
     
  10. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    He has done a decent job and must be retained. He looks more in control compared to Fakhar during the start of the innings.
     
  11. KingOfDoosra
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    KingOfDoosra Sultan of Swing

    Jun 8, 2012
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    Average of 44 is not a failure. Fakhar's story is different. His average was 65+ at one point now its 45. Meaning his last 20-30 matches would be at mid 20 average.

    I believe the likes of Dhawan Bairstow Warner Finch also average 45 @ 90+
     
  12. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Oh you are speaking of the Uncle who has 70% win percentage when he scored 100 in ODIs and 96% win/drawn percentage whenever he scored 100 in Test matches.

    This reminds me of a batsman who piled and piled some useless runs just to achieve some stupid record even though those runs were causing defeats to his team.
     
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  13. iZeeshan
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    iZeeshan Whispering Death

    May 22, 2012
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    I can't believe we finally have an opener who doesn't get out in the first over and people want to remove him.

    We finally have an opener who consistently scores 100s and people want to get rid of him.

    Pakistan has struggled with players like Salman Butt, Imran Farhat, Awais Zia, and god knows who else at the opening slot, and now want to remove the guy who's averaging 50 plus. Unreal.

    Of course he's not perfect and still has a lot of flaws in his game, but he's shown that he puts a price on his wicket (most of the time) and can score big. He can accelerate when needed (ex. 150 against England, 100 off 100 against Ban).

    Idk what more people want. And replace him with who? Oh I forgot we have Rohit Sharma and David Warner on the bench.
     
  14. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
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    He is not the best player but has built a foundation for improvement.

    This is the real test for Imam and the test which so many promising Pakistani batsmen fail.

    Has he got the temperament and mental fortitude aswell as the desire to dedicate his life to the craft of batting to take his game to the next level?

    Only time will tell.
     
  15. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    theres nothing wrong with depending on numbers and statistics dont lie. its their misuse which is the problem.

    ive written this so often on these boards, that even im getting bored of it. this crap analysis in the OP is utterly worthless. imam has fluffed his numbers with cheap runs against crap sides. the other contenders like shan or abid didnt get to fill their boots with meaningless centuries against Afghanistan and Zimbabwe.

    following on from a dream, soft induction though, the one thing we can say is that he has hit some good runs, averaging 42 against sold, strong sides - England, Aussies, saffers, nz, india - but look at the detail - although thats over a decent 22 innings sample size, it was mostly in matches where the average innings was 300+. thats not his fault though, and it can be argued that 42 is good enough, even if his strike rate is poor - since at this level of analysis, it still seems a superior return to most alternatives.

    thats where the analysis falls apart.

    if you want to compare imam to other openers in contention who have had international exposure, you can make an apples to apples average and strike rate comparison on Odi numbers:

    imam 55@81
    fakhar 46@96
    (including minnows for both)

    and if we include only eng/aus/ind/nz/saf:

    imam 42@75
    fakhar 41@92

    showing how far superior fakhar is as a utility player. a sr of 75 is just not suitable for the modern game. but a valid argument at this point is: who cares? - they are both playing.

    so lets look at a comparison with the other guys who are not playing. we cant compare international games here because abid and shan havent really played enough, so the only fair way of comparing them, on a like-for-like basis, is on domestic List A stats after stripping out the international games.

    this is what their careers looks like on that basis after removing intl games, which gives you some sense of historic skill level. the last two or three years of data will give you skill trajectory and form. the total runs in brackets are a measure of experience, the higher the number, the more dependable the averages statistics:

    LA (ex intl) career:

    imam 35@75 (1,122) (36 Odis)
    fakhar 53@96 (2,600) (44 Odis)
    shan 57@83 (3,957) (5 Odis)
    abid 39@81 (3,472) (3 Odis)

    Sharjeel 43@109 (2,595) (25 odis)


    1) notice how many chances they gave imam vs abid vs shan in Odis.
    2) this is a pure head-to-head comparison. now if imam is averaging 55 according to the op when given intl minnows to play against, what would abid and shan have done?? this is why some of us with more intelligence than to look solely at a headline number were and are dead against imams selection, and why it was purely political/nepotism.
    3) with two untested guys who have done MASSIVELY better than him waiting in the wings, there is absolutely no justification whatsoever to have played imam.
    4) notice how many more runs the others have, meaning that their superior numbers are more dependable too.


    last three years LA (cant really use fakhar and imam because they have missed domestic LA competitions because of international duties - so this is an indication of shan and abid's form and skill progression relative to their own careers as above):

    shan 76 ave (sr not available) over 48 innings, 2,904 runs and 10 nos - if we ignore his not outs, he still averages 61 - although there is no reason to preclude them.

    abid 47 over 1,744 runs, 51 over the past two years.

    Both these stats indicate that not only are shan and abid in good form, but they are likely at the best they have been in their careers given the uplift in recent years versus their career averages.


    this is how you use stats properly, how you ensure you have a good sample size, ensure how you make comparisons on apples to apples basis, and draw suitable conclusions.


    there is no way on earth imam should have been playing for pakistan based on the available talent and his comparable performances to that talent. does that he mean he should never play for pakistan? no. it means he needs to do better in domestic in order to justify selection.

    QED
     
  16. BuccalSingh
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    BuccalSingh Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 21, 2016
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    His tall statements and attempt to play him even in t20 is making his life more difficult. He won’t get dropped in near future but if he continue to play poorly than he will loose his place in the side. We don’t have much options currently so we need to stick with him and hope that he improves fast .
     
  17. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    I think very soon we will about to have another option - Sharjeel's will back and start playing from AUG/SEP I believe.
     
  18. BuccalSingh
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    BuccalSingh Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 21, 2016
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    Yes, and he should be replacing Fakhar, though I won’t rush him and would like him to play fc cricket.
     
  19. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    Maybe, maybe not. At least not in T20, who's WC is next year.
     
  20. Gotham Cronie
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    Gotham Cronie Youngsta Beauty

    Jan 14, 2015
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    Let's drop him for the Matthew Hayden and Virender Sehwags roaming the streets of Pakistan
     
  21. BuccalSingh
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    BuccalSingh Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 21, 2016
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    For t20 Fakhar is fine, but I would drop him for odi and let him improve his game by playing in domestic games.
     
  22. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Yeah for all those who's using Hayden, Sehwags and Warner etc have no idea who's is doing what in domestic.

    @godzilla provided details of LA's stats of Fakhar, Imam, Shan and Abid.

    Both Shan and Abid have been doing great for past few seasons in domestic, but of course our arm chair experts here wouldn't know, because nobody heeds on domestic cricket.

    I bet many here dont even know who're our U-19 openers and what their stats are.
     
  23. BuccalSingh
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    BuccalSingh Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 21, 2016
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    There is another one in Ahsan Ali, he was impressive in Psl and aamer Sohail wanted him to be in Pak squad . Not sure how he’s doing now , but I think we need to give chance to a few deserving youngsters now .
     
  24. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    that will be a good option particularly for T20s
     
  25. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    no I think we should ignore all the data because its too hard to understand all those numbers and back the new selfie for as long as we did with him - lets play him for 80 odd matches, destroy progress for three or four years before the penny finally drops. in fact, lets get selfie back too, because he hit a couple of centuries too didnt he?
     
  26. iZeeshan
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    iZeeshan Whispering Death

    May 22, 2012
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    Ahmed Shehzad has 6 hundreds in 81 ODIs @ 32 with 76 SR.

    Imam has 7 hundreds in 36 ODIs @ 55 with 80 SR.

    It's not even a close comparison, stop trying to so hard with your fake news.
     
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  27. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    tenor-1.gif

    I wish I could say its astonishing that a simple satirical response to a satirical post is way beyond your comprehension abilities. id suggest you avoid responding to my posts, I think its pretty clear that you are grossly incapable of understanding any of them.
     
  28. Express Pace
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    Express Pace Cornered Tiger

    May 11, 2012
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    I don’t care what his stats are, personally not a fan. His dismissal against Afghanistan sum up my thoughts.
     
  29. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Imam has 8 100s!
     
  30. Bublu Bhuyan
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    Bublu Bhuyan Youngsta Beauty

    Feb 15, 2010
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    Such a shame not a single one of them came against Australia or South Africa. When you score all of your centuries against second string teams and score just 1 against the top 2 teams of your time, it’s obvious many of them will come in wins compared to a batsman who has scored 30 odd centuries against Australia and South Africa alone, LOL.
     
  31. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Australia ke khilaaf to Inzi ne test series jeetayi hui hai 94 Multan i guess!!
     
  32. Bublu Bhuyan
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    Bublu Bhuyan Youngsta Beauty

    Feb 15, 2010
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    Yea, with an average of 35 in that series at home. Such a series winner, LMAO.
     
  33. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Was that Karachi or Multan that last wicket partnership with Mushie? Warne bowling to him missed stumping from Healy to win the game!@@
     
  34. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Okay good for you.
     
  35. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
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    thoughts on fakhar, should we continue with him ?
     
  36. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Will select Fakhar in tests and t20s. Will keep Imam in tests only. Will pick Sharjeel only in odis and t20s. Abid Ali in odis only. Will pick Ahmed Shahzad as 3rd opener in odis and t20s. Will pick Shan Masood as 3rd opener in tests.
     
  37. Express Pace
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    Express Pace Cornered Tiger

    May 11, 2012
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    I personally think he should bat lower down the order, maybe 6 or 7.
     
  38. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    he can be good at No. 5 or 6 i think
     
  39. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

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    i prefer no. 8 position for him
     
  40. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    kiya itna bura hon mein maa lol fakhar would be saying!!
     

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