Are Pakistan the new chokers?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by ASLI-PATHAN, Apr 2, 2014.

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  1. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
    64,636
    I think yes. Lets look at the ICC tournaments after Pakistan won the World Cup in 1992.


    ICC Champions Trophy:

    ICC Knock Out 2000/01 in Kenya - Pakistan lost in SF against New Zealand by 4 wickets.
    ICC Champions Trophy 2002/3 in Sri Lanka - Pakistan did not qualify even for SF.
    ICC Champions Trophy 2004, England - Pakistan lost in SF against West Indies by 7 wickets.
    ICC Champions Trophy 2006/7, India - Pakistan did not qualify even for SF.
    ICC Champions Trophy 2009/10, South Africa - Pakistan lost in SF against New Zealand by 5 wickets.
    ICC Champions Trophy 2013, England - Pakistan was eliminated from the first round.


    ICC World Cup:

    ICC World Cup 1996, India, SL & Pakistan - Pakistan lost in QF against India by 39 runs.
    ICC World Cup 1999, England - Pakistan lost the final against Australia by 8 wickets.
    ICC World Cup 2003, South Africa - Pakistan was eliminated in group stages.
    ICC World Cup 2007, West Indies - Eliminated from Group stages.
    ICC World Cup 2011, India - Pakistan lost in SF against India by 29 runs.



    ICC World T20:

    ICC World T20 2007, South Africa - Pakistan lost the final against India by 5 runs.
    ICC World T20 2009, England - PAKISTAN WON.
    ICC World T20 2010, West Indies- Pakistan lost in the SF against Australia by 3 wickets.
    ICC World T20 2012, Sri Lanka - Pakistan lost in SF against SL by 16 runs.
    ICC World T20 2014, Bangladesh - Eliminated from group stages.


    As you can see in all these 22 years after WC 1992 Pakistan had done very very poorly in ICC tournaments and had lost 2 Finals, 6 Semi Finals & 1 QF during the process. The only bright spot in these years is winning the T20 WC 2009. So forget about South Africa I think Pakistan are bigger chokers than them when it comes to ICC tournaments.
     
  2. Express Pace
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    Express Pace Cornered Tiger

    May 11, 2012
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    Pakistan have never been favourites for any of these tournaments. South Africa are favourites or one of the favourites for every tournament. I am not sure how Pakistan can be considered chokers, we have in fact overachieved.
     
  3. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    1996 & 1999 Pakistan were firm favorites to win the WC. 1996 Pakistan was defending champion and in 1999 Pakistan had got the best team.

    In T20 too Pakistan was the defending Champion in WT20 2010. :shrug
     
  4. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    Tbh Pakistan overachieved in last few ICC Tournaments..

    Probably only time we lost as favourite was in 1999.
     
  5. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    I think some Pakistani fans are still living in era of 90s .. Its hard for them to understand that our team is just mediocre now and the better team qualified for semi final.. But no we should be winning each and every match against every opposition.

    Team is just mediocre, accept this fact and you won't worry much when they lose.
     
  6. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Over achieved? :fp

    Standards had dropped for Pakistanis which is very sad to see. At least I am not used to such performances. Maybe the fans of pre 1992 era will agree with me.
     
  7. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    And lol at Pakistan done very poor in ICC tournaments.. Pakistan has been the most consistent team in ICC Tournaments, they have reached minimum semifinal of every icc Tournament since 2007 except last year CT & this world cup.
     
  8. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    And what did they do in those semi finals? The point is that they bottle the matches which matter like Finals, Semi finals & QFs. When a team consistently bottle the big games they are called the chokers.
     
  9. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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  10. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Delusional.
     
  11. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    The next WC is just 11 months away. I will not expect anything from Pakistan if they do well then good if not at least i will not feel the pain.
     
  12. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    So if someone disagrees they are delusional? Pathetic.
     
  13. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Your thinking.
     
  14. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    That's your sorry opinion.
     
  15. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    He is a dictator.. He thinks he owns cricket team and should dictate everyone's views.

    Ridiculous.
     
  16. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Of course this is my opinion and I am not a delusional fan like you. I can clearly see that Pakistan is consistently choking in big matches from the past 22 years and thus I made this thread. Just by posting "NO" will not change this fact. I presented my opinion with facts & figures which you can see in the OP.
     
  17. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Are you okay bro? Where did I say I own the team? :lol
     
  18. Fawad
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    Fawad Sultan of Swing

    Sep 1, 2010
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    As EP said being a choker implies that you're good enough to be the favorites going in to a tournament and play well till the last stages.

    So, No. I haven't seen a world beater team from Pakistan that I considered to be the clear favorites going into any tournament in 99% of my life. Even when we were at top, we all knew that we could collapse at any moment.
     
  19. WaQaReD!
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    WaQaReD! Talented

    Sep 13, 2011
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    id say we are chokers but not on the level of the south africans or even perhaps the sri lankans.
    last night was a choke, Pakistan were expected to qualify for the last 4 considering the sub continent conditions they were playing in
    we're chokers chasing though, batting 1st we're usually a lot better in a pressure situation but chasing our batsmen just dont have a clue how to chase down a target and we'd likely have choked chasing down a score in a pressure game or not
     
  20. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    Disappointing to see someone following cricket for over 2 decades having no clue at all. Pakistan didn't lose the match because of choking they lost because of incompetence and a few other reasons to go with it.

    Every team chokes once in a while but that doesn't make them forever choker. Pakistan have choked there fair bit of matches, as has India, as has England, as has Australia. Those who continue to choke are chokers, that's not us.

    2013 Champions Trophy: Imran Farhat, Shoaib Malik, and Kamran Akmal were a part of our team. We were pathetic in that cup. Bowlers were out of form except Irfan and batsmen were doing there usual business. Imran Farhat was an international failure yet you take him to England backed up with absolutely no performance in domestic. Kamran Akmal, can't bat, can't keep, no performance in domestic yet picked in the team. Shoaib Malik another lost cause, picked for so called experience took up another spot in the lineup and again backed up with no performances. Mohammed Hafeez as we all know on swinging pitches is as good as a tailender versus any bowler. 4 players take the spot in the team as batsmen yet contribute absolutely nothing. Nasir Jamshed, had a decent cup but was inexperienced. He threw his wicket away after two starts.

    But whose fault really is it? It's the fault of the captain who likes to chose his favorites. It's the fault of the selectors who either chose these players or fail to say no to Misbah. It's the fault of the chairman for not questioning the selectors for chosing cricketers that do not deserve it.

    Fast forward from Champions Trophy to Pakistan v South Africa in the UAE where we lost 4-1. We lost but look what happened in that back to back Proteas Tour. Maqsood selected on merit happened. Shehzad selected on merit happened. Malik was in T20s, we lost. Malik was injured and then we won T20's.

    It is not because we choke we lose. It is because our board is corrupt we lose. It is because there is favoritism and nepotism we lose. It is because there is no planning we lose. We also have bad matches at times or mistakes by single players like Ajmal v Australia, Misbah v India twice. And maybe once in a while we choke but we aren't chokers. We just have idiots in the board from top to bottom and thats what makes it so frustrating.
     
  21. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Whatever are the reasons I am not discussing that but the fact is we are consistently choking in big tournaments.
     
  22. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    So making statemants with no support. Why are you scared to reply with proof? I thought you were a lion.
     
  23. Fawad
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    Fawad Sultan of Swing

    Sep 1, 2010
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    Had we lost all these tournaments in the finals and being the favorites till the last match over our opponents, then the word choke comes into play.

    New Zealand were/are always in semi finals of lots of tournaments, they were beaten becuase stronger teams outplayed them. Being outplayed is not choking!

    ASLI-PATHAN needs to read this article > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_(sports)
     
  24. Stan1
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    Stan1 Talented

    Sep 8, 2011
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    we do tend to throw it away / choke vs india... the pressure was written allover the players faces during that game atleast. Also chasing, we have a flat wicket and supposedly good batsmen but we will somehow not even put up a fight; choking in a different sense to SA, they are the daddies, but we do have a habit of surprising even ourselves.
     
  25. Stan1
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    Stan1 Talented

    Sep 8, 2011
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    the sidney test chasing 130 odd comes to mind... so we do have examples of hen we outright bottled it.
     
  26. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Which proof? If you are not blind then you can see that I have provided all the proofs in the OP.
     
  27. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Bro pre 2008 Pakistan was always one of the strongest teams going into any ICC tournament. We were favorites in 1999 WC and choked in the final. In 1996 we lost to the Indians when we are were winning against them left, right & center that was a pure choke. 2003 we had Australia down to 80 odd for 4 and then let their No. 6 batsman to score 140+ and they ended with a score of 300+. And then what India did to our bowlers is well documented.

    Again in 2011 we had restricted India to 260 odd by bottled to chase that score against supposedly poor bowling of India.

    These are some examples. My point is that whenever we are in a good position to win the game we lose it from there on that's why for me it is a big choke. I am not talking about strongest team or not. Look at last night's game we had WI 80 odd in 15 overs and lost the game from there. If this is not choke then what is it?
     
  28. Fawad
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    Fawad Sultan of Swing

    Sep 1, 2010
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    Choke would've been if we we scored 150/3 in 17 overs and lost from there.

    West Indies batted better than us, bowled better than us. Controlled the match in 25/40 overs. That's called being outplayed.
     
  29. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    You have stated that Pakistan lost so and so match, you have not given in detail why and how we lost it and what were the reasons.

    It is like a lawyer saying this man has killed 3 people but not giving any proof he has killed those people.
     
  30. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    I had given you the matches go and check for your selves and this is not a court.
     
  31. Fawad
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    Fawad Sultan of Swing

    Sep 1, 2010
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    Just because fans expect their team to perform, team doesn't automatically become favorites to win the match. Neutral fans and experts are better judges of who is favorite to win the match.

    If we go by fans expectations than Bangladesh are the biggest 'chokers'
     
  32. ehtesham
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    ehtesham Cornered Tiger

    Sep 10, 2011
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    I just came to know that to be chokers you need to bottle it in finals, losing semi finals consistently in conditions tailor made for so called best attack of the world ain't choking, its called over achieving #respect
     
  33. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Tell me one instant when a neutral predicted Bangladesh to win a major ICC tournament. I can tell you countless neutrals who named Pakistan to win the tournaments mentioned in the OP.
     
  34. Express Pace
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    Express Pace Cornered Tiger

    May 11, 2012
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    I check the betting odds of all these tournaments and Pakistan have never been favourites. These odds are compiled by experts.
     
  35. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    Also check what the Cricket pundits were saying for all these tournaments. :shrug
     
  36. Express Pace
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    Express Pace Cornered Tiger

    May 11, 2012
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    The favourites tag is from betting odds.
     
  37. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    Pakistan are only so called favourites by there X factor which is randomness. This team will lost to Zimbabwe in Zimbabwe but beat South Africa in South Africa. You never know what Pakistan is capable of. And that is why we are labelled favourites.
     
  38. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    And I gave you a reply regarding Champions Trophy which you never replied to.
     
  39. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
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    You gave example of just one tournament out of the all. What about 1996, 1999, 2011, 2007, 2014 etc?
     
  40. Express Pace
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    Express Pace Cornered Tiger

    May 11, 2012
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    Pakistan weren't betting favourites in any of those tournaments. No one was willing to put money on them, no one thought they would win.
     

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