British Politics Thread

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by ElRaja, May 21, 2014.

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  1. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    
    Tbh, Wales and Scotland should just be assimilated and the whole island called England!

    Scotland and Wales have what, 5 and 3 million people in their populations? Yorkshire has a greater population!
     
  2. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    i never meant to imply that people living in poor conditions dont work hard, that would be saying my parents didnt work hard when we were financially tighter, id never disrespect them like that. you missd the point i wanted to stress, its not just me, me and my three closest mates from college, we all are doing ok, which would be highly improbable purely as a game of numbers considering where we all came from.

    i will state that in my very direct experience, there is a common element in those who achieve beyond what is expected of them, that is making sacrifices, delayed gratification if you will, when it comes to investing in themselves.

    just to kind of paint a picture, of these three guys i mentioned earlier, one grew up without his parents around, worked and saved up even a few quid a week, never wasted a penny, recently bought a flat in London, still foots his grans bills. another mate came to this country barely speaking english, learnt two languages whilst we were in uni to make himself more employable, just bought a house last year. the other's dad walked out on their family when he was ten, he was working since he was 13 but never let having to earn for his family ever be an excuse to let his grades slip, this guy passed f maths averaging high 90s, guys loaded now.

    i was lucky that i had super supportive parents, but i used to leave home at 530 in the morning, and get back at 8 in the evening, for an unpaid job i did for nearly a year. some other guys i knew used to laugh at me, told me they'd never be mugged off like that, and that i was being taken for a ride. i saw it as an investment in myself and that experience was invaluable in angling to get myself given the responsibilities i needed to progress my career.

    the state is extremely important, it paid for my uni, it paid for my moms op back when we could never had afforded her op on private. but the state should be considered a fall back mechanism, it should not influence ones aspirations, i thoroughly disagree with the idea that vast majority of people are in the situation the are in because of externalities.

    yes some people have a very bad hand dealt to them, in that case their successes are judged in that context. a maths teacher in my school used to sell fake text books, like the ones you photocopy and sell, and we all used to take the pi ss wondering why hed do that, he pbly made barely a fiver on each book. then one day we figured out both his kids were disabled and guy used to scrape every penny he could to pay for their care outside of what the nhs provided. i had so much respect for that guy after i found that out, he wasnt a millionaire, he didnt have a flashy car, but he grinded for what he needed to do without ever letting on what situation he was in, thats aspirational to me, motivates me knowing how lucky i am.

    imo if you are born in the uk, if you are able bodied, and have the safety net of the state, you really must have a very exceptional rationale behind why your externalities caused you to not live up to your own aspirations.
     
  3. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Sultan of Swing

    Feb 21, 2010
    15,146
    Big day tomorrow...all elections ive been votes in (Mayoral or General) since I came of age, we've lost lol (not to mention my PTI support in Pakistan lol). Yet to taste victory. Hopefully that'll change tomorrow and cine the EU referendum (both should be confortable wins)

    Hopefully that'll change tomorrow.

    Thing is, Goldsmith isn't that bad...hes a bit of a Tory rebel. He could have had my vote.

    Anyway, Siddique should win InshAllah
     
  4. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    my first vote was the mayoral election in 2008, i had an exam that day, got home tired ad had to prep for another exam the next day and my dad sent me out to vote. i was like :eek:

    gonna be a low turnout i think, ive never seen people less hyped about the mayoral election before. im know a lot of people who aint even bothered to vote this time.
     
  5. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Sultan of Swing

    Feb 21, 2010
    15,146
    lol yh Livingston was my first vote (bloody Boris)

    Itll probably be at 40ish%...dont really know who thatll help more tbh
     
  6. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    no one i think, sadiq will win, london is a labour city, but they are willing to punt on big personalities. zak aint no ken, or boris. i reckon sadiq will win quite comfortably.
     
  7. Donal Cozzie
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    Donal Cozzie Tracer Bullet

    Nov 4, 2014
    7,204
    Nah.

    Wales for all extents and purposes is England anyway, bar rugby and gareth bale.
     
  8. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Sultan of Swing

    Feb 21, 2010
    15,146
    We should re-take Ireland already and create the Greater UK that is destined...
     
  9. Donal Cozzie
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    Donal Cozzie Tracer Bullet

    Nov 4, 2014
    7,204
    You can barely fund the crap part of the island as it is.
     
  10. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    That's no way to talk about Scotland!
     
  11. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    I know you said you support the Tories because they suit your ideological stance the most but are you ever shaped (of which you are conciously aware) by personality politics?

    Do you ever let somebody's personality and history dictate your vote? After all, politicians lie, we all know they lie to get they want, we lie to ourselves that so-and-so is best for our country so a lot of politics is embedded in trust.
     
  12. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
  13. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    id vote for someone else if they were i thought they were ideologically closer to my position. the tories dont suit my ideological stance, their merely the closest, which isnt saying much.

    the tori party is a joke full of the born privileged and a few decent people, i have no real affinity for them as a whole. id vote for anyone if it meant keeping labour out.

    regarding personalities, i liked ken livingstone, for not being afraid of doing whatever the hell he wanted, id vote for him if he ran as an independent. i think for mayoral positions, being strong and independent is more important than ideological leanings. the mayor doesnt have enough power to make the kinds of ideology based changes that would effect peoples daily life.

    in zac v sadiq, there both nothing special.
     
  14. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
    6,508
    Tories making huge gains in Scotland. SNP still 'win' but not enough to have a majority. The Scottish Parliament is designed to make it difficult to obtain a majority ....that shows how a big victory it was in 2011.

    Labour have really failed in Scotland. Allying with the Tories during IndyRef has meant that their is no real Scottish Labour identity. Left leaning voters have jumped to SnP/ Greens etc and Unionists have decided to vote Tory.

    A Tory opposition in a country where the SNP mantra has always been that Scotland never votes Tory so the UK govt doesnt represent us...things will get interesting!
     
  15. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
    2,701
    Results not as bad for Labour as feared in England. Held onto key bellweather councils like Crawley and Southampton. But avoiding a disaster isn't cause for celebration nor is it any indication you'll win the next general election.

    It won't be enough to quieten the Corbyn critics who'll argue an opposition party, a year into a Tory government's second term when they're slashing local council budgets, presiding over a junior doctors crisis and divided over Europe, should be making big gains. Labour have become the first opposition party to lose council seats in midterm since 1985.

    Scotland is a disaster, and in fairness to Corbyn there's little he could've done to avert it. I wonder if the time's come to make Scottish Labour independent of Westminster and let it be an entity of its own.
     
  16. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
    16,722
    First round of voting for London Mayor Elections is complete.

    Sadiq Khan leads with 44% of the vote
    Zac Goldsmith trails with 35% of the vote
     
  17. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    @ComradeVenom what stance would u rather have labour held in the indy ref, given without scotland theyll pbly never win a national election majority again

    good for sadiq, ok result i guess.
     
  18. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
    6,508
    Should have campaigned seperately to the Tories and run their own campaign. Unfortunately they began to be seen as Red Tories.

    During this campaign Kezia Dugdale also meantioned that in the event of another Indyref that Labour Candidates could freely campaign for an exit.

    This left the 55% of the public who voted no to independence a bit confused, hence the surge in seats for the Unionist Tories. The 'threat' of a second ref was a big talking point here.

    So in summary they should never have grouped with the Tories as they lost their identity, and then they should have been staunchly pro union this time around instead of showing flexibility.
     
  19. Fireworks11
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    Fireworks11 Kaptaan

    Sep 22, 2012
    31,530
  20. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Whispering Death

    Dec 26, 2011
    8,603
    Britain First and their deluded followers are fuming lol
     
  21. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Sultan of Swing

    Feb 21, 2010
    15,146
    Sadiq Khan...son of Pakistani immigrants, son of a bus driver, grew up on a council estate...now Mayor of London. What a country I was born in, one of the greatest of the world BY FAR.

    I almost had the chance to interview Sadiq a couple of years ago for my dissertation (was human rights based) in his capacity as Shadow Justice Secretary. Fell through at the end, annoyingly enough. Meh. He called me twice too during the campaign (I was campaigning for him/Labour, sounds a normal nice guy...has some of my Mullah friends fuming though, not happy at some of the things he's said/stood for in past lol)
     
  22. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
    6,508
    Yeah its funny that hes hated by both Far Right and Mullah crew. These groups surprisingly have a lot in common.

    Sadiq seems decent enough. Not a typical 'Muslim' candidate. Man got where he is on merit and isnt part of the old boys (uncle) club that seem to dominate Asian involvement in British politics.

    Best of luck to him.
     
  23. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Sultan of Swing

    Feb 21, 2010
    15,146
    Indeed, you know you're doing something right when both ends of the bigot spectrum are unhappy with you lol

    The guy was a Human Rights lawyer...politician...Mayor.

    I think i now have a UK political role model/equivalent to Imran Khan lol
     
  24. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Sultan of Swing

    Feb 21, 2010
    15,146
    Also this is the best thing ive ever seen/heard

     
  25. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
    6,508
    Zac actually seemed like a reasonably nice guy before this election. Had a kind of Hugh Grantish air about him - very posh but likeable and charismatic. This toxic campaign has effectively killed his political future - cgood thing he has a couple of billion to fall back on
     
  26. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
    16,722
    Zac actually had decent policies and was a likeable guy. A couple months back I would have been fine with either winning but after his campaign really wanted him to lose miserably. Even Jemima criticized his campaign on twitter yesterday and understandably so. Hope Sadiq does well.
     
  27. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    zacs campaign managers have destroyed his career, don't see him coming back from such disastrous loss.

    he would have ran it much closer if he focused on his own green credentials. that on the face of it, would still have not been enough, but he would have at least had some honour and marked his politics out in a good way.
     
  28. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
    2,701
    Whilst I find Sadiq's distancing from Corbyn as highly self-serving and disloyal, I do feel for him.

    Already the right-wing knuckledraggers who lament the presence of so many brown/black faces in their city and are the ones crying "white genocide" on social media are kicking off. Whilst the ultra-conservative maulvis hate his guts and claim he's a "Zionist sellout" (classic talking point from hard-left new age Islamists). The Evening Standard are incredibly biased against him too.

    They can continue to whine but fact - he's received the biggest individual mandate in London mayoral history. And he's YOUR mayor.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  29. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    i think he might have received the largest individual mandate in uk politics history, i dont think any mp gets even close to as many votes.

    distancing himself from corbyn in London makes sense, London at the end of the day is a city that just oscillates around the political centre ground.

    even boris toned down his right wingness for the first 5 or 6 years of his mayoralty, and coming across as an electable centrist is a very clever career move on his part in the long run.
     
  30. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Sultan of Swing

    Feb 21, 2010
    15,146
    Like i said before, i may have voted for Zac had there been someone else standing against him representing Labour. At the end of the day, elections like these focus more on the individual and far less on the party.

    I still think he's a likeable person and wouldnt say his political career in DoA just yet. Just let the dust settle a little.
     
  31. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
    16,722
    His career would have been fine had he still lost by the same margin to Sadiq but instead having run a campaign focused on issues. Nothing wrong in losing gracefully. He would have still been liked. But having run a toxic campaign he has damaged his political career. He may get elected again as an MP in 2020 but that is all he'll ever be.
     
  32. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
    2,701
    IMF says Brexit 'bad to very, very bad'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36284200

     
  33. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,777
    a protracted period of heightened uncertainty, lol, and the imf get the award for stating the bleeding obvious. anyone telling you the future of the economy is anything but uncertain over more than an 18 or 24 month horizon is LYING....

    the periods of greatest "certainty" are what cause the greatest moral hazard and lead to the real crashes, like when the great proponent of bremain, gordon brown bid goodbye to boom and bust. being aware of, or at least appreciating the uncertainty of the economy, for whatever reason, is no bad thing.
     
  34. Rhythm
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    Rhythm Cornered Tiger

    Nov 27, 2014
    10,855
    Lol wtf is this? Thanks for sharing.
     
  35. Rhythm
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    Rhythm Cornered Tiger

    Nov 27, 2014
    10,855
    What's his father's last name? @Prince Pathan can help us confirm if he's Pathan or not.

    Note @Don Duckman
     
  36. Prince Pathan
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    Prince Pathan Sultan of Swing

    Aug 31, 2011
    16,900
    Nah think Sadiq Khan is Mirpuri :p


    DQ asked a question regarding Sharjeel Khan, I did not know, looked it up, saw his father last name was Alizai (pashtun tribe) said it.

    Get over it man :p
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  37. Rhythm
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    Rhythm Cornered Tiger

    Nov 27, 2014
    10,855
    Now you can figure people's lineage without their father's last name? Impressive.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  38. Prince Pathan
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    Prince Pathan Sultan of Swing

    Aug 31, 2011
    16,900
  39. Rhythm
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    Rhythm Cornered Tiger

    Nov 27, 2014
    10,855
    How's the response from the average white man/woman living in London? @Mohsin and other Londoners.
     
  40. Rhythm
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    Rhythm Cornered Tiger

    Nov 27, 2014
    10,855
    One great thing about living in NA or Aus/NZ is that if any white racist tells you to go back home, you could tell em the same thing and then some.

    Unfortunately can't do that in Europe. I feel for you guys.
     

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