For how long biased selection of BABAR will continue in Test...

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Del, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Del
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    Del Cricistani

    Dec 21, 2016
    2,429
    Title says it all...

    He's a quality LOI player, no question about it. But in Test, players like Fawad Alam are ignored and Babar has been preferred.

    Million dollar question is, in spite of having extended run, for how long he can keep his place in TEST ?
     
  2. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    He isn't a Test Player,I know it's sad to say,He keeps and strangling the ball down leg and he can't handle pressure,It's not a biased selection though.

    Just watch his 90* against the kiwis was a test knock and a very good one,I feel he needs to try and regain his confidence then maybe he will start to perform,I don't see him being kicked out though

    Pakistan should stick with him though,Today's innings had no blemishes in it,If you kick him out from tests then he won't perform in Odis just remember that.
     
  3. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Cricistani

    Dec 11, 2010
    5,637
    Give Babar time he will come good. As for Shafiq though... turning into a waste of space
     
  4. maddgenius
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    maddgenius Cricistani

    Oct 6, 2014
    2,217
    Should be given a long rope. He's the future. It's Shan Masood's selection that baffles me.
     
  5. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    Just hope that this thought is of Mickey Arthur and Inzi.
     
  6. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    Give Babar Azam some time. You cant go chopping and changing after every single match. Team won't settle this way! By all means reward the performing players but just show some faith in someone who has performed in 2 shorter formats. He will come good in tests too. There is no substitute for experience!! You wont get a born talent like Younus, Misbah & Fawad Alam every single day. Babar has got some talent!!
     
  7. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Cricistani

    Jul 24, 2012
    5,874
    Judge him after 30 tests
     
  8. SOPL
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    SOPL Cricistani

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,273
    Even England don't have the patience of giving Stoneman and Westley more than possibly a summer season run and you want a run of 30 Tests in the volatile Pakistan set-up!

    On the topic in hand, I would rather have Babar than others at this moment because he will be the one to carry the team forward and has already been pipped to be a bright prospect (backed up to an extent by his LOI performances).
     
  9. Prince Pathan
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    Prince Pathan Cricistani

    Aug 31, 2011
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    Yeah well that is life.
     
  10. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Cricistani

    Jul 24, 2012
    5,874
    England have an abundance of batting riches in domestic.

    Pak don't have a player like Babar and at the age of just 22 years he should be given a long run. He will be learning his craft in test match cricket as is isn't a seasoned domestic pro.
     
  11. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
    51,323
    Asad Shafiq is the one who should be questioned. So much investment for what?
     
  12. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Cricistani

    Dec 11, 2010
    5,637
    Give Babar another 5 tests. If he's still getting these low scores then send him back to the drawing board.

    However at the moment Asad needs to be replaced. He's a poor mans Ian Bell for Pakistan. Some decent innings followed by very poor innings.

    After 50 tests I think its safe to say he's never going to be a top class batsman. Average at best.

    Give Harris a run in his position and try to bring in a batting all rounder instead at no.7.

    Only problem is that due to lack of experience in the batting side the management won't be keen to make changes
     
  13. Shaz130
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    Shaz130 Cricistani

    Dec 29, 2016
    690
    Naw he should be persisted with. Lets give him time to learn how to build a proper innings in Tests. I think instead of holding back he should play his ODI game. Kinda like Sarfraz does. At the moment its not lack of ablity its lack of mindset with him.
     
  14. Ahson8
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    Ahson8 Well-Known Member

    Jun 9, 2012
    14,481
    Give him 2-3 full series in the UAE. If he still fails then your question is valid
     
  15. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,300
    He hasn't even played 10 Test Matches yet and already has 4 fifties with a highest of 90*. Bearing in mind this is Babar when he's batting really badly and doesnt look suited to Test Cricket.

    It may take some time but he should be persevered with and we'll see him either step up or be dropped. He's shown enough ability to be given a longer run.
     
  16. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Cricistani

    Jul 24, 2012
    5,874
    He should be given 2-3 years. He's still a youngster with tremendous talent. Will come good inshAllah.
     
  17. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    10000000% agree with the op. its total common sense, there is no justification whatsoever for babar in the test side. if he has the long game temperament, why is he averaging 36 in first class cricket? if he is quality, why dont they let him prove it in the domestic tournaments BEFORE selecting him, rather than wasting a space and treating it like a nursery for under developed players?

    I had thought inzi would be different, but alas, he is turning out to marginally less sh** than his predecessors, but still idiotic and incompetent.

    two major middle border batsmen depart, and the choices on an apples to apples fc comparative basis are (fc ave, total fc runs):

    azhar paint drying ali 42 (10k)
    shafiq technique 39 (7k)
    babar amazaming 36 (2k)
    Harris injury sohail 52 (4k)
    Usman wont ever get selected Salahuddin 47 (6k)
    fawad kryptonite alam 57 (10k)

    although of course blind stats are not everything, stats on large data points just cannot be ignored, they become more important and the more data, the more anomalies are ironed out. with those numbers, he has literally selected the worst two as amongst the first choices, its beyond belief.

    and of course this isnt even taking into account that the first choice opener is a board members son, and averages a terrible 34 over 5k runs in fc.

    this is why this side is so crap, the nepotism, corruption and incompetency of the board and its stooges will never let us flourish.
     
  18. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Well-Known Member

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Can’t call it biased. He is new on the scene & talented. Give him time.
     
  19. Del
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    Del Cricistani

    Dec 21, 2016
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    First and foremost, I said biased selection is a sense, because he's keep on getting games after many failures, except that 99 runs innings, even though still we lost that game against NZ. On contrary, whats the fault of Fawad Alam? Why dont this poor guy deserve to have 2/3 series, alteast he has solid domestic record to back his selection - no?

    Once again, he showed today that he's vulnerable at this level. I'm all in to him some time, but not more then 2/3 series. Him and Asad can't hide anymore in absence of Younis and Misbah now.

    And also, for Sarfraz, it's time to take his batting and Test cricket serious. We can't afford to have him play this gung-ho style of cricket anymore. The way he got out today was extremely childish.
     
  20. Shaz130
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    Shaz130 Cricistani

    Dec 29, 2016
    690

    What ever is going on with Fawad is all to see. No one but the management can be blamed for that. I doubt any decent Pakistani fan feels he doesn't deserve a go. But what can we do? We are not some selectors who will go to the management to select him. Its there job to favor him due to his performance. Not ours alone. Lets not cry over something that is not in our control.

    The way Babar played today was horrible. I agree. However don't forget he is still new to this format. Our senior players who were supposed score more than a zero digit did nothing amazing in this condition. The way to go from the start was to take singles and doubles. Try to attack the bowlers to get there line off the good areas. We attempted to play our natural defensive cricket which 1. did not move the score along, 2. Gave Sri-Lankan bowlers enough confindence to attack with the line they were attacking with.

    Now going back to Sarfraz. I believe when he came into the game he showed exactly how other batsmen should have played there cricket on here. In matter of fact I can easily say his innings with Haris Sohail gave us confindence we could finish it nicely. By the time he got out I feel the damage was done. It was a right time for a player like Hasan Ali to smash few balls.

    In the end of the day we lost the game. Which happens its part of the game. The series is not over yet. We will come back inshallah. The only players I really want out are Sami Aslam and Asad Shafiq. These two are proven chokers.

    Edit: Forgot to add. Kick out Amir to. He is all hype no results. The dude has been given enough chances. Bring back Junaid Khan for him.
     
  21. Del
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    Del Cricistani

    Dec 21, 2016
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    @Shaz130

    If something wrong is taking place from a long time, then it doesn't mean that I look into the other direction and pretend that it doesn't happen anymore. Yes, I'm nobody to select him, neither part of management but I'll keep on raising my voice, specially on occasion like this in his support.

    The thing is Babar has become "Golden boy" of Pakistan cricket. People want to support him even if he's not doing his job. I'm not one of those. Ofcourse, both Azhar and Asad didn't do their jobs, but it's a separate debate. But my concern is the leeway, which Babar is getting without doing justice to his selection. Again, I'm all in to give him 2/3 more series, but again question comes in mind, will it do any good for a players who has 36 avg in first class cricket? Shouldnt be go back to the domestic, pule up run and then get selected based on successful domestic seasons? National side is not a place to groom players and wait for them to be mature to be productive - you have domestic cricket for that, otherwise, whats the point of having domestic?

    Sarfraz biggest problem is that his game is full of risks. He plays too many risky shorts, which will yield some quick runs and that's precisely happened today. Going forward, he need to reduce the amount of risky shorts he play, which is vital since the departure of two senior pros.


    Not just Amir, the less said about our new ball bowling, the better. OUR BOWLERS NEED KNOW HOW TO USE NEW BALL TO GET WICKETS.

    As I said in another thread, we let them take control of the game in the first innings. We let SL make too many runs, then we batted poorly - 200 odd runs in 90 overs in this age or Test cricket is not acceptable, because we're not stuck is 70's/80's.

    Last but not the least, this is a myth that our players can play spin well. I'm think its the other way around.
    Simply because, there are two ways to play spin.

    1. You get out of your crease and goto the pitch of the ball (this way you'll keep the spin).
    2. You let it spin and play as late as you can.

    Our players didn't do any of these, which is mind boggling.
     
  22. Shaz130
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    Shaz130 Cricistani

    Dec 29, 2016
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    No need to pretend. Just know what you say or do will have little effect on his selection. And preaching it won't make him selected sooner. I would instead like the selectors to answer this if they ever get asked that in an interview.



    He did not become a golden boy over night. He showed performances in ODI's to get into this position. The guy deserves a long go because any fan who has seen him knows he is a quality batsmen. You are being a typicial arm chair fan who sees a batsmen struggle in few games and wants him dropped. We won't develop a Test batsmen this way. Look at other teams who persist with there talented players who eventually fire for them few games later.



    You know damn well there is a huge difference between our domestic cricket and international cricket. Getting used to international cricket is not always easy. Babar is more than capable of piling up big scores. He just needs to understand when to attack when to defend. You want a young player like him to be replaced by who exactly? If its Fawad, isn't he already reaching his mid 30s? You won't get any world class batsmen over night. You need to give them time to get used to such formats. Now why does he get leeway? Its simple he looks like a complete batsmen who is more than capable of being good in this format. Whats really an issue is the head. Nothing else. Once he starts understanding his game in Test cricket he will score big inshallah. If we invested so much in Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq why not another player?



    We have enough batsmen who block the ball. Expecting another one to play like Misbah won't win us games. His batting position is low enough if anything its the top order that needs to fire. Dealing with players like Azhar Ali is a eye sore enough. If this guy loses his natural game Test cricket would be almost unwatchable.



    Amir uses up our new ball. This guy needs to go. Looked like a passenger this game.

    I don't think first innings really costed us the game. Lets be honest this total was chaseable. All we needed were two big partnerships. The problem is none of our main batsmen held on.

    The only players that were playing spin well were Haris Sohail and Sarfraz. The others looked like sitting ducks.
     
  23. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    You need to have one stance all the time. his selection was not biased however in the present circumstances, he does not merit to be selected for playing 11 of 2nd test. Fawad Alam should be the first player selected in this squad alongwith Yasir Shah, no doubt about that!
    But, what happens is people say one thing at one time and if results are not good, then they change their stance so you need to have same stance before the match and after the match. You can say in the light of current circumstances, he does not merit his place for 2nd test but to say his selection was biased is way too far and totally wrong@@ He has performed so well in other formats and is work in progress and one for the future!!
    @SwingNSeam @Mohammed Bilal @Ahson8
     
  24. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
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    Babar is a legend but I guess test cricket isn't his thing,But that 90* just shows his talent and it's just incredibly annoying that he isn't showing his potential.
     
  25. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    This is what happens when you give chances to someone who does not deserve it or is not ready for it! I was heavily criticized when he made his debut and I had taken a stand that he is still not ripe he is still work in progress, he is a great talent but to put it in simple words, he is still not a full grown fruit! Aam pake nahi the aur hum ne tor liye this is what Pakistan has been doing for decades they throw a youngster at deep end just for the sake of youngsters!! This is great injustice to Babar himself too!! Babar se aur baki saare players se phele Fawad Alam ka chance banta hai! Current team mein best batsmen Azhar aur Harris Sohail hein un se bhi phele Fawad Alam ka chance banta hai!!
     
  26. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
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    To make him ripe just put ethene on him.

    One more thing,I cannot see Fawad alam in this team,Can't bat
     
  27. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
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    Yaar when I'm like 30 odd I really want to still see Pakistan as an international team

    That's why I back Babar.
     
  28. Shaz130
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    Shaz130 Cricistani

    Dec 29, 2016
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    Can't wait till Babar proves this thread wrong.
     
  29. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    Babar is a talented cricketer. There is no denying that. But, the way selectors threw him at the deep end is wrong when Fawad Alam deserved chances much before him and everyone else!@
     
  30. Shaz130
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    Shaz130 Cricistani

    Dec 29, 2016
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    Fawad is 34. Move on
     
  31. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
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    I dont understand why babar "looks like the complete batsman", and is "talented in this format" and "will come good".

    why? based on what? if he is so good, then how come on a crappy domestic circuit he can only manage a 36 batting average? he is a good limited over batsman, he has proved it. no surprises that his domestic performances there appear to be being borne out in international matches - domestic one day average = 51, international one day average = 54.

    so when all he can manage is 36 in domestic first class games, why is there this bullet proof belief that magically he will do substantially better against international teams??? its early days but lo and behold, his test average is 26.

    it is still that hard to believe that a player who is excellent in one format can be crap in another? is it every fanbase across the world that knows that except the Pakistani one? even when they have plentiful examples like YK staring them in the face. (YK test average 52, ODI average 31)

    babar should not be playing test cricket until he has proven in fc that he can play the long game.

    shafiq should be dropped.

    Shan should be dropped. id even have fakhar open instead of him, Shan averages 34, fakhar averages 43 in first class. these are not small differences.

    amir should be told he is no longer an automatic choice, and he should be rotated; as an alleged pace head, he was the only bowler in the side not to take a single wicket apart from Shan masood. and his pace partner who wasnt deemed good enough to make a side that amir walked into took five wickets, outperforming Amir yet again, who is proving himself mediocre.

    Alam, Salahuddin, Harris should be given a long rope, they have earned their places, rather than betting the farm on someone who "looks good" but mysteriously cant perform.

    this is so obvious its painful.
     
  32. Express Pace
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    Express Pace Cricistani

    May 11, 2012
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    Difference between real Kohli and our wannabe Kohli's? 95% of the time he comes through when his team needs him. Our 'Kohli's' play one decent knock get anointed and then are back to being garbage.
     
  33. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    Please no comparison

    Indian media don't compare Manish pandey with kohli so why should we compare Babar with kohli.
     
  34. Del
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    Del Cricistani

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Really dont have time these days to spend hours counter arguing with people - The point which I wanted to make is crystal clear.

    Babar is a Golden boy and darling of many, because he has great limited over record. No question about it. But is this the rational behind his selection in Test? Do we select players in Test based on their performance in shorter format? Since when this is the criteria of selection in Test? And by this logic, why everybody back in 2015 were throwing shoes at Younis Khan when he blackmailed everybody, forced his selection in the WC squad?

    No matter how talented a player is, he has to perform in any particular format to justify its selection.

    Again, I'm all in to give Babar 2/3 more series, meaning another 6-7 Test games, but if he doesn't produce any match winning performances or useful contribution toward the win, then surly we need to look beyond him, because he's not ready it seems.

    He need to perform in domestic to earn a spot in Test, it's just that simple. Don't know why people have problem with it.
     
  35. Del
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    Del Cricistani

    Dec 21, 2016
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    I really don't understand what make you say that I've changed my stance. My opinion about Babar stands the same. What has he done to earn a spot in Test side? Does his Test or first class records vouch for it? Why Fawad or Salahuddin or any other player who has make truckload of runs don't deserve such leeway which Golden boy is having?
     
  36. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
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    I just hope that Fawad alam just gets selected and then makes 10 ducks in a row.
     
  37. Del
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    Del Cricistani

    Dec 21, 2016
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    ^^^ People need to stop shoving their opinions on others throats and stop favoritism towards certain player. At the end of the day, we all want best for Pakistan.

    Stop supporting a certain player, support Pakistan.
     
  38. Shaz130
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    Shaz130 Cricistani

    Dec 29, 2016
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    The rational behind his selection is that he is still young and is being groomed for the future. He has also performed well enough in limited overs to warrant a spot. What I am trying to say is that for players like him you can give them a little leeway till they eventually show promise. Which is bound to happen since the potiential is there.
     
  39. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
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    What man,he won't be able to perform against quality bowlers.
     
  40. Del
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    Del Cricistani

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Yeah, and your bobby darling is hitting double hundreds, toying SL trundlers for fun, right?

    Nobody is saying that he doesn't have potential - we all know it. However, he is not delivering and living up to the expectation in TEST. Investment has been made and is still happening, but if he doesn't deliver in coming months, then some other deserving batsman from domestic should be given a chance. And that guy could or could not be Fawad Alam.
     

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