Harris Sohail should be promoted to No. 4 if we have to win this test

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Shahzad.Firdous, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    In my opinion, based on last 3 innings, Pakistan must promote Harris Sohail to No. 4 and demote Shafiq and Babar to one number down at 5 and 6. This should be the batting order in next innings.

    1. Shan Masood
    2. Sami Aslam
    3. Azhar Ali
    4. Harris Sohail
    5. Asad Shafiq
    6. Babar Azam
    7. Sarfraz
    8. Yasir Shah
    9. Amir
    10. Wahab Riaz
    11. Abbas
    Performances so far in 3 innings:

    1. Shan Masood 75 runs in 3 innings @ 25 average.
    2. Sami Aslam 90 in 3 @ 30
    3. Azhar Ali 142 in 3 @ 47
    4. Harris Sohail 166 in 3 @ 56. 3 wkts.
    5. Asad Shafiq 71 in 3 @ 24. 1 wkt.
    6. Babar Azam 39 in 3 @ 13.
    7. Sarfraz 40 in 3 @ 13.
    8. Amir 25 in 3@ 8. 1 wkt in 3 innings.
    9. Yasir Shah 45 in 3 @15 15 wkts and counting.
    10. Wahab Riaz 15 in 1@ 15. 4 wkts and counting in 2 innings/.
    11. Abbas 8 wkts.
     
  2. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    Put Harry at 4 and we will win this.
     
  3. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Cricistani

    Dec 11, 2010
    5,637
    Rejig the whole lineup:

    1. Azhar
    2. Sami
    3. Harris
    4. Sarfraz
    5. Babar
    6. Asad


    Hopefully there won't be any need for the rest. If there is any need for some other batters then play remaining guys Amir, Yasir, Wahab, Abbas or Shan in any order. All 5 are tailenders and have equal ability
     
  4. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    Babar,Shan,Amir,Yasir,Wahab and Abbas are all Tailenders
     
  5. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    and what are the odds that shifting the one player who is brand new and actually performing into a new position will mess up his game and leave is with a low score from him to add to all the others?
     
  6. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Cricistani

    Feb 21, 2010
    6,758
    We need to bowl them out cheaply first. One small partnership this afternoon and the game is gone.
     
  7. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    Babar Azam also atleast in this series.
     
  8. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    Azhar and Harris and to some extent Asad Shafiq are the only proper batsmen in this 11. Sarfraz if he has his day which could well be today.
     
  9. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    hate to say I told you so. so obvious.
     
  10. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    You might as well go in with Yasir to open the batting.

    As I have said before,We've got no Moeen Ali or Ben Stokes to take us from 135/5 to 300,You can get away with 300,Now Sarfraz is expected to bat like a proper batter which he can but he's in such a rut,Even if he does bat well he'll probably make a 60 then the whole team is gone,
     
  11. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    Total overhaul of this lineup coming up I guess! How about this one?

    1. Azhar Ali
    2. Fakhar Zaman
    3. Asad Shafiq
    4. Harris Sohail
    5. Fawad Alam
    6. Sarfraz
    7. Bilal Asif
    8. Hassan Ali
    9. Yasir Shah
    10. Wahab Riaz
    11. Abbas
    @SwingNSeam

    Discard thrash and keep the performing ones.
     
  12. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    just goes to show how pivotal misbah and younis were. where are their haters now?

    of course this will be washed away under the premise that this is sarfraz's first captaincy, and so he needs to be given leeway. I cont disagree with that which is why I wouldn't suggest he should be dropped. but whats everyone else's excuse?

    it will be a very predictable travesty for mickey, flower and inzi to get away yet again with some atrocious decisions.
     
  13. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    Inzamam is not to be blamed! He selected the right squad and he will surely select now Fawad Alam. Had he selected Fawad Alam without an excuse, then also everyone would have criticized him in the board. Now, there is every reason to select Fawad Alam!!
     
  14. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    kick out asad for Salahuddin, no brianer. id probably want to redo an analysis of the country's leading domestic batters, but in the absence of that, my inclination would be (fc average in brackets):

    1. azhar ali (42)
    2. fakhar (42)
    3. haris (52)
    4. alam (56)
    5. Salahuddin (47)
    6. specialised bat, or imad (41)
    7. sarfraz (42)
    8. yasir
    9. not wahab
    10. not wahab
    11. abbas

    as opposed to the existing bullshit line up:

    1. shan (34)
    2. aslam (36)
    3. azhar (42)
    4. shafiq (39)
    5. babar (36)
    6. haris (52)
    7. sarfraz (42)
    irrelevant

    is there any surprise at all at what we are seeing? or that given those first class averages that Haris has been the stand out performer despite the immense experience and investment in azhar and technique shafiq?

    why do they not play their best batsmen? this has been a policy for decades now with the results there for everyone to see. inzi is very marginally better than his predecessors, but still crap, like a 3/10 instead of 1/10.
     
  15. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    Harris Sohail and Fawad Alam are both left handed batsman who bowl left arm spin. This is the reason why I selected Bilal Asif as we need an offspinner to do the role of Hafeez. You need a proper offspin allrounder as we have seen in past how effective Hafeez has been in past atleast in UAE. For overseas, you could go with Aamir Yamin as allrounder to do a Razzaq at No. 6.
     
  16. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    with respect I totally disagree with you. I can understand him being reticent to shake things around in his first few months, but hes been there for a while and keeps making the same horrendous decisions. a few good ones, but mostly bad. the squad is atrocious. if hes scared of ether board, then he is to be blamed completely and should resign, and let them select the squad, theres no point in him being there then.

    im hearing from my sources in the side that hes essentially doing whatever mushy is telling him, which is even worse if true.

    I dont understand how you can defend this squad, theres 15 members, and of them at least 4 should never have been selected: babar, bilal, Shan, wahab, with possibly Aslam, shafiq added to that list. its crap.
     
  17. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    Salahuddin needs to bat at 3 and then Harris walks in at 4 and Fawad Alam at 5. You dont want to expose your best batsmen too early unless they are an opener like Azhar Ali. In this team, Fawad, Harris and Azhar are the best batsmen with Fakhar 4.
     
  18. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    we cant score any runs. pick the best bowlers to bowl and the best batsmen to bat.
     
  19. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490

    Yes,you need an alrounder but a safe one,Also this 200 from one day approach needs to end,350 should be the base.
     
  20. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    I've thought about it,Fawad definitely needs to come in,A guy averaging 57 is being wasted.
     
  21. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    Had Inzamam discarded Asad Shafiq straight away after 7 years of investment in him, without giving him a well deserved opportunity to take the mettle from Younus Misbah, everyone would have blamed Inzmam. Now, Inzamam has got a valid reason and these players can not say they were discriminated - the usual Umar Akmal version!! Thrash will clear itself and those who are the best will survive!! You cant play any sport without being anything but the best!!
     
  22. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    Atleast, Wahab has proven his selection right!!
     
  23. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    yes I agree, which is why I put aslam and shafiq as addenda.

    but I will bet you there will be no clearing of trash. just like they keep bringing shehzad and wahab back, who have proven beyond any doubt that they are trash. until the board is sacked in its entirety and there is fresh professional administration, there will be no meaningful changes. they specialise in persisting with trash. and I agree you cannot survive without playing your best, which is why pakistan cricket is languishing at the bottom of all the tables and will continue to do so.
     
  24. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    nope. one innings does not justify a horrendously bad career. thats why you look at long term stats not short term ones. besides, he fluked three of the wickets:

    "Wahab Riaz to Karunaratne, OUT, played on. Big wicket. Keeps Pakistan in this game. Short and wide, not a great delivery"

    "Wahab Riaz to Samarawickrama, OUT, taken! Pakistan have three in this session. Wahab has Samarawickrama gloving down the leg side. It's short, and quick down leg"

    "Wahab Riaz to Dickwella, OUT, this is a sensational catch from Sarfraz!"

    the fluked wickets are not the issue though, everyone has good and bad luck, its his record that is not obviated by one innings.
     
  25. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    To be fair to him, he did bowl well and quick!! Pace matters no matter what! Pace does wonders! He blows a bit hot and cold but he is a matchwinner! On his day, he wins matches!!
     
  26. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    oh for gods sake.

    if he is a match winner and pace matters, what is his ranking in world cricket? how does he compare to the other pacers in pakistan on first class terms? why has he been dropped so many times and how come he has lost so many games for pakistan? how many man of the match awards has he won for pakistan in tests if he is a match winner?

    if you think pace matters no matter what, its not worth discussing anything any further.
     
  27. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    He was the highest wicket-taker for Pakistan on Aus-NZ tour with 11 wickets in 4 tests. He won us 4th test in England with a spell of bowling. He similarly won us a test and series against England in UAE. He supported Yasir Shah in helping us win a test in Slanka in 2015, the series which we won 2/1 in which Younus Khan and Shan Masood scored centuries in the last test in Pallekele. In that series, Junaid Khan went like Amir in two tests and it was Wahab who picked five wickets in a test match and got injured in the 1st innings batting so could not bowl other than his initial spell in 2nd test, which we lost. There have been several occasions like Mohali semi final, World Cup 2015 Watson spell, In 2015 WC, he was the highest wickettaker for Pakistan with 14 wkts in the tournament, In PSL 1, he was the bowler of the tournament!!
     
  28. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    Even if you dont rely on rare occasions. Just check his stats. His stats are not as bad as he is made to look!! He is a wicket-taker in any format!
     
  29. Prince Pathan
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    Prince Pathan Cricistani

    Aug 31, 2011
    10,331
    lol he was promoted to number 4 today and we had a mini collapse. Well done SF mulk ka dushman
     
  30. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    us ke No. 4 pe jaane se Asad Shafiq 5 pe aaya hai and he scored those runs! Harris Sohail should stay at 4 permanently. And if this batting has to stay, Asad Shafiq will play at 5 after this, Sarfraz can move to 6 as we need an allrounder (Bilal Asif/Aamir Yamin) at No. 7.
     
  31. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
    490
    Lol,Harry playing with minds.
     
  32. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Cricistani

    Jul 17, 2017
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    Amir Yamin is better than Ben stokes,But for some strange reason he isn't even in the Test 15
     
  33. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
     
  34. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
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    What is the ranking of other bowlers you have in your team? Only Yasir Shah is ahead of him in tests with Amir, Hassan, Rahat, Sohail, Imran and all other bowlers that have played in last 2-3 years all behind him.
    Who is ahead of him in odis? Maybe Hassan Ali and Hafeez who is not even playing anymore consistently!
    @godzilla
     
  35. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cricistani

    May 29, 2010
    8,051
    @godzilla
    Current test rankings of Pakistani bowlers:
    1. Yasir Shah 15
    2. Wahab Riaz 25
    3. Rahat Ali 34
    4. Zulfiqar Babar 39
    5. Abbas 42
    6. Amir 43
    7. Imran Khan 47
    8. Sohail Khan 53
    Amir, who is consistently playing in all formats is at 43rd in test rankings whereas Wahab Riaz, who gets chances off and on, is at 25!! Even, Rahat and Zulfiqar Babar who are no longer playing cricket for Pakistan are ahead of Amir. Even, Abbas who has only started is ahead of Amir!! Wahab Riaz is your 2nd best bowler in test cricket currently!!
     
  36. Double Agent
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    Double Agent Member

    Jun 27, 2017
    62
    this team need lala to inject some energy nd aggression
     
  37. godzilla
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    godzilla Cricistani

    May 12, 2016
    280
    this comparison is meaningless if youre trying to find the best bowlers in pakistan for test cricket. what it does tell you is how good the bowlers that have been selected by our selectors are. and the numbers show that they are all poor except Yasir.

    on a comparative Pakistani bowler level, ie if you just use that list to compare the Pakistani players who have been selected, all it shows is who is the best of the the players that have been picked, not whether the best players were picked. in addition, although amir, rahat and wahab for example have played roughly the same number of matches, amir has had a big break in his, so the relevant amount of recent matches (which directly leads into the ranking calculation) is a lot lower for him, so its not a fair comparison (even though I dont think he should be playing for pakistan). abbas has played far fewer matches so his comparison doesnt work either.

    the only analysis that we are able to provide to make a fair comparison is on first class games, where you take out the bias of shit selectors who dont know how to do their jobs, and everyone is on a relatively even keel. I did this a year or so ago on pp (linked above), there you can see that in the same environment, on the same pitches, on an apples to apples how the players compare, and you can see from that analysis a while ago how poor guys like Rahat and wahab are compared to the talent available.

    just as an example, lets do some current comparison on the first class level for:

    name wks ave eco sr

    Abbas 267 21.99 2.81 46.9
    wahab 427 28.56 3.34 51.2
    amir 206 23.52 2.90 48.6
    rahat 244 24.40 2.99 48.9

    so here you can see comparisons of a significant sample size (200+ wickets), and on that basis it clear how far superior Abbas is on average, followed by amir, Rahat and wahab, which is born out on recent performance more or less, if economy is a proxy for accuracy, no surprises in Abbas amir Rahat and wahab again in that order, and if strike rate is a measure of destructiveness, the ranking is exactly the same too. as it happens, Abbas tops all three measures and as it happens he has taken more wickets in his last ten innings than the other three bowlers in their last ten innings (thats just an indicative measure since its not the same conditions/oppositions for each of the players last ten innings).

    if you want to know who the best are in pakistan from a statistical point of view, the only thing to do is to make this comparison for the top fc bowlers, with perhaps a heavier weighting for recent years for a consideration for form.
     

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