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Has the UK government been callous in it's approach th COVID-19?

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Choi Saab, May 11, 2020.

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  1. Choi Saab
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    Choi Saab Smooth Operator

    Oct 4, 2014
    3,996
    Pre warning *I might rant in this thread*.

    Is it me or has the UK government genuinely been callous in it's response to the COVID-19 situation.

    Now before I start ranting, I must state that I am not the most clued on the science element to COVID-19 so please excuse me if I get something wrong, though I will try my best not to.

    Now the UK's first confirmed death was around the 5th March, but there is reports circulating that this might have actually took place on the 28th Feb;

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-hold-in-uk-earlier-than-thought-data-reveals

    If I remember correctly, it was around March 4th where we had our first jump in cases from around 30 to 84(ish) and it was a few days or maybe just a week after when Nadine Dorris, junior minister was diagnosed with COVID-19 so the potential for Westminster to be 'teeming' with it was a possibility and it was only around mid March that the government started it's press briefings and only at this stage advises the public on social distancing and urging them to stay away from gatherings keeping in mind the death rate and case rate was start to surge at this time. After this there was an official announcement on schools closing after Rishi Sunak announced the budget with around £30 Billion allocated in the fight against COVID-19 and around the end of March we had the lockdown announced.

    Now let's be frank, the lockdown measures were extremely lax, I will only speak about Lancashire as I had to constantly work during the pandemic due to the kind of job I'm in and constantly had to come face to face with the public (I'm not complaining one bit, it was my job and I had to do it, simple), during the initial phase the police around here handed out around 125(ish) fines, but we saw the immense criticims that was put on the police day in day out by the media (keep in mind, a fair bit of it was justified), but the legislation itself wasn't actually put in place for a good week after Boris's speech and the fine was pretty minimal in the larger scheme of things. I believe there was a 'Engage, Explain, Encourage and Enforce' kind of policy in place by the police. So was the government even ready to enforce a lockdown? I don't believe so one bit, looking at what was happening in Italy, Spain and France should have rang bells across the political spectrum but there seem to he no care in the world and something as important as the legislation should have been drafted up in contingency planning and then bought forth with all stakeholders on board, clearly the police and government were never on one page as we saw all sorts of statements from the NPCC about how the 'police are confused', 'there needs to be more clarification amongst other issues' just reinfocing that neither had really consulted or made the time to consult each other beforehand.

    Also, keeping in mind that the UK police has been devastated by cuts during this austerity period, were they ever capable of enforcing a lockdown? If you look at the figures of how much police France have compared to the UK, it's shocking, 330,000 in France compared to 130,000 in the UK. We both have a similar population as well.

    So clearly the lockdown was lax and not even enforcable as witnessed by the multiple pictures of traffic/people in the park etc circulating online and surely witnessed by posters here.

    Moving onto some of the 'optics', was the Nightingale hospital even a worthy move? When there is reports circulating that it was not even used or barely used and is now due to close;

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....on-nhs-nightingale-hospital-placed-on-standby

    Unless I've missed it, there is no data on how much it cost to build the hospital, was this is a good use of resources when staff, logistics that could have been better used in overun hospital were sat idle at the Nightingale hospital instead? This to be just seems to be a PR stunt.

    Then coming onto the issue of PPE, we all know the debacle that took place but there was one place that the UK goverment was clearly failing in;

    Care homes!

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52284281

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....buy-their-own-ppe-as-national-deliveries-fail

    There was a clear lack of PPE equipment delivered to staff and easily the most vulnerable residents at these places. Instead staff in a lot of places were left to their own devices and we saw how the local community had to step in to fill the void left;

    https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2020/05...l-team-raise-money-to-buy-ppe-for-care-homes/

    Why is that it took almost 6 weeks of counting for the government to add care home/community deaths into the total UK count, when that should have been added to the daily briefings to give the public the clear picture and not to mention if it was used properly, the government might have actually had to something about the situation, it was only due to the pressure from care homes and the media that the government added it to the daily briefings and the graphs that they left to parade.

    There was also the debacle with SAGE, whereby government ministers such as the clueless Dominic Cummings were allegedly involved and not allowing the scientists to put their points/suggestions forward and then we hear 'we're following the science' mantra.

    Not to mention the countless false promises with the testing, for the last 6 days the government has fallen below it's 100,000 testing a day pledge. At the time when Germany were testing 500,000 a week, the UK was doing under 20,000 a day! There was no concept of contact tracing, the much hyped NHS app is still defunct and now there is plans to drop it completely and the debacle with the NHS volunteers whereby the public went out of it's way to sign up and there is reports that only a handful of people are being passed anything to do.

    Most importantly what about Op Cygnus? Which clearly showed in 2016 that the UK could not deal with a pandemic! Why were lessons not learnt and not implemented? Probably because the politicians were busy creating a toxic environment in the UK about Brexit! Now to be supressing it? How callous do you have to be?

    What about the press conference today? I don't understand the whole 'stay alert' slogan change, is this some kind of PR campaign? Is confusing the public and the media really the best thing to do when we have supposedly passed the peak and are bracing for a possibly second wave? Also his measures, I mean seriously what does this mean 'We are encouraging you to go to work but don't use public transport' what? When a good number of the UK public use trains and buses! Primary schools to reopen, what purpose does that serve when secondary schools are to reopen in Sep anyway? Did anything Boris say actually make sense today? Not to mention half the cabinet wasn't even consulted and the message was pre-recorded over 2 days.

    What about the criminal fact that the PM of the country missed 5 Cobra meetings prior to the pandemic set up to discuss the ... you guessed it, the pandemic!

    I do apologise for the rant and possibly extremely long post, but I am extremely frustated at the lack of what I believe is unnecessary deaths due to complete and utter government callousness and incompetence.

    It is sickening that the NHS had to set up fundraisers to be able to buy and source PPE for itself. The communities have had to chip in and assist - yes it is the responsibility of everyone to step up during difficult times but the government was absent and busy playing gimmicks whilst frontline staff worked in difficult conditions and laid down their life to assist the needy and vulnerable.
     
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  2. Choi Saab
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    Choi Saab Smooth Operator

    Oct 4, 2014
    3,996
    This post does not even touch upon the immense human suffering that has taken place during this pandemic and I would prefer not to (personally) as it will only rile me up due to personal losses and just the fact that I hate seeing people vulnerable regardless of who/what they are.
     
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  3. PakistanZindabad!
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    PakistanZindabad! Cornered Tiger

    Sep 29, 2012
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    All we have learnt is tories always will care only for themselves
    They lied over and over bigger up their testing numbers artificially and have spun everything as a win and saying we have avoided catastrophe despite the biggest death toll in Europe
     
  4. Choi Saab
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    Choi Saab Smooth Operator

    Oct 4, 2014
    3,996
    Think it was Stephen Powis who said 'we will have done well if we keep the deaths under 20,000'.

    Well what about now? We've far exceeded that number.

    Incompetent stuttering bufoons. No less.

    The fact that the try to spin this positively is horrific.
     
  5. PakistanZindabad!
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    PakistanZindabad! Cornered Tiger

    Sep 29, 2012
    10,445
    Yeah I remember that too, under 20,000 was a “good result”. No mention of that now

    The only thing I give the benefit of the doubt for is the time at which they implemented lockdown, while it was slightly later than we shouldve I understand that they didn’t want us to get “lockdown fatigue” before we peaked (like the fatigue most people are feeling now)
     
  6. Choi Saab
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    Choi Saab Smooth Operator

    Oct 4, 2014
    3,996
    I do get that argument and for the record, it was never going to be an easy or popular battle to win.

    But

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....kdown-britain-public-opnion-a9496346.html?amp

    Although a small sample size of 2000 people, there is clear will from the public for the lockdown to continue so I'm not 100% sold on the idea of 'lockdown fatique', yes there will be a portion that will go through it and will cause issues.

    But

    Is it helped by the constant mixed messages and blaise attitude of the government, I don't think so.

    I just feel that they had the examples of Spain, Italy and France before them and they completely flopped it, not out of a lack of choice but more incompetency and callousness.
     
  7. PakistanZindabad!
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    PakistanZindabad! Cornered Tiger

    Sep 29, 2012
    10,445
    I understand and agree that lockdown needs to continue out of necessity but I interpreted lockdown fatigue being more in terms of mental health, I know it needs to continue but I’m starting to get sick of it, that’s what I thought fatigue is

    But yeah this mixed messaging and the fact that people are seeing people out on snapchat/twitter/insta which makes us think why are we bothering to stay home makes it worse
     
  8. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,479
    I have been so active discussing COVID over at doctors.org.uk with folks, I come here only to relieve some COVID fatigue.
     
  9. Bella
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    Bella Youngsta Beauty

    Jan 24, 2010
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  10. Fireworks11
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    Fireworks11 Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Sep 22, 2012
    31,416
    Yes. They have acted extremely carelessly, as the numbers show. Initiated the lockdown too late.

    What’s the point of asking passengers to self isolate now when it should have been 6 weeks ago.
     
  11. PakistanZindabad!
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    PakistanZindabad! Cornered Tiger

    Sep 29, 2012
    10,445
    Yeah I came back from Pakistan a week before lockdown and there wasn’t a single thing more than a woman in Heathrow pointing at hand sanitiser and saying to use it
    No advice or any temperature checks nothing
     
  12. Choi Saab
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    Choi Saab Smooth Operator

    Oct 4, 2014
    3,996
    This.

    Was speaking to someone at work recently, one of their family members were repatriated, can't remember where from but the stopped off in New Zealand where they were removed, disinfected x2 and kept separately before being put back on the plane one by one, when they got to Heathrow, they walked straight out with no checks and calmly made their way home.

    Makes you think directly how responsible this government is for the mess.
     
  13. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,479
    Why are you surprised? I professed this in mid March and came on record showing my concerns here, on twitter and other platforms. There were many others doctors who were doing the same by that time. If a non-virologist, non-epidemiologist doctor like me could have calculated the upcoming disaster based on Italian stats then why did the governments' scientific think-tanks, agencies, public health officials, ministers, and policy-makers remained so complacent even clueless? and the less is said about professor pantsdows, the better!
     
  14. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,479
    P.S and if you guys any hopes of this thing going away anytime soon, just wait for the second wave, expected mid-to late June and that might be deadlier than the first, hope I'm wrong.
     
  15. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,479
    These posts are from 13th March

     
  16. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,479
     
  17. Choi Saab
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    Choi Saab Smooth Operator

    Oct 4, 2014
    3,996
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-death-toll-passes-40000-official-figures-say

    So now officially the death toll is 40,000. I wonder why the delay in announcing the deaths, because that is an excess of 8000 deaths comapred to literally the day before.

    Maybe there was a genuine delay, not arguing everything.

    But a delay in announcing 8000 excess deaths.

    Completely callous, I severely doubt if the government had taken the measures earlier and enforced them properly, would we have ever touched this figure.

    Seems the government is immune to human misery and suffering.
     
  18. Choi Saab
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    Choi Saab Smooth Operator

    Oct 4, 2014
    3,996
    This was pretty much Boris speech in a nutshell.
     
  19. MR__KHAN__JI
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    MR__KHAN__JI Talented

    Sep 5, 2010
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    The policy is herd immunity by stealth....



    Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
     
  20. Bella
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    Bella Youngsta Beauty

    Jan 24, 2010
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    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/12/governments-handling-covid-19-british-disaster/



    The Government’s handling of Covid-19 is a very British disaster by, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard for The Telegraph

    I have been silent on COVID-19 for a while. There was little to be gained from harrying the Government once it abandoned the misadventure of herd immunity and was at lease trying to get a grip. Much of the belated media onslaught is reflexive gotcha-journalism (where were they in February when the mistakes were made?) or hides an ideological agenda.

    But claims by both Downing Street and Public Health England and they “got it right” cannot be allowed to stand. Nor can the pretense that each stage of the containment policy is being fed out at just the right time and at just the right calibration under the Jupiterian guidance of behaviour theorists.

    There was never anything to be gained from delaying the lockdown once the bushfire had slipped control due to a lack of testing/tracing. Every three days of prevarication meant a doubling of the infection caseload. It was to sink deeper into the quagmire. Nor did the SAGE committee ever have sufficient grasp of the basic facts to fine-tune the timing, let alone to play God.


    The facts will be out but it is hard to escape the conclusion that this secretive body – neither institutional fish nor fowl, with opaque responsibilities-gravely misjudged the speed of contagion long after the danger was obvious to virologists, immunologists, and epidemiologist across the world, and indeed to anybody paying attention.

    Why does it make sense to impose a two-week quarantine on foreign arrivals at this late stage (excluding Ireland and France), rather than having done so when imported cases were first causing an explosion of infections in a virgin host community?

    A COVID cardiologist at a top London hospital – friendly to Boris – has been so incensed by the daily charade of bogus omniscience that he vented his spleen in an email to me on Sunday night. It is a poignant indictment, so I pass along a few snippets.

    Basically, every mistake that could have been made, was made. He likened the care home policy to the Siege of Caffa in 1346, that grim chapter of the Black Death when a Mongol army catapulted plague-ridden bodies over the walls.


    “Our policy was to let the virus rip and then ‘cocoon the elderly’,” he wrote. “You don’t know whether to cry when you contrast that with what we actually did. We discharged known, suspected, and unknown cases into care homes that were unprepared, with no formal warning that the patients were infected, no testing available, and no PPE to prevent transmission. We actively seeded this into every population that was most vulnerable. We let these people die without palliation. The official policy was not to visit care homes – and they didn’t (and still don’t). So, after infecting them with a disease that causes an unpleasant ending, we denied our elders access to a doctor – denied GP visits – and denied admission to hospital. Simple things like fluids, withheld. Effective palliation like syringe drivers, withheld.


    The public has yet to realise that the great quest for ventilators was worse than a red herring. The overuse of ventilators was itself killing people at a terrifying ratio and behind that lies another institutional failure.

    “When the inquiry comes, it will show that many people died for lack of oxygen supply in hospitals, and this led to early intubation,” writes the doctor. “Boris survived because they gave him oxygen. High flow oxygen wasn’t available as a treatment option for all patients.”
     
  21. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,479
    I do not understand the UK's obsession as a whole of doing virtually everything religiously in accordance with pre-set rigid guidelines, criteria and conditions, often without much clinical evidence or even common sense.

    And their obsession with 'efficiency' - lame attempts at first making use of supposedly pre-existing but realistically non-existent, fragmented or outdated resources and contingency plans etc is legendary. Add that to their self-perceived superiority complex of knowing and doing everything better than others, and you have a perfect recipe for disaster
     

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