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How do u target Indias opening batters?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Shahzad.Firdous, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Problem we are constantly facing is with that new ball whether its batting or bowling. We are neither able to pick wickets with new ball nor able to survive new ball when batting and lose more wickets than 1 in early part of the game. If we have to win against India, we must play new ball right both with bat and the ball.
    So, strategy must be devised to dismiss atleast Dhawan if not Rohit Sharma. Just target Dhawan with that new ball and it should be Amir's job to target him. Do whatever it takes to dismiss him. This should be his primary goal with that new ball. Then we move forward to breaking Rohit Sharma and Kohli partnership and then Dhoni and rest of the cast. Go step by step. I think a test series will help them identify their weaknesses.
     
  2. Fireworks11
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    Fireworks11 Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Sep 22, 2012
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    When r we next playing India?
     
  3. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Probably in a World Cup, Champions Trophy or Asia Cup,,
     
  4. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Why should it not be other bowlers responsibility as well to take wickets? Why should Amir target only 1 batsman not others?
     
  5. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Amir is our best bowler therefore he should take responsibility of giving atleast 1 breakthrough in his initial spell. Obviously, Amir will target all batsmen but its better to focus on getting easier batsman out first and then going after difficult ones. Initial spell jo hota hai us mein fast bowler puri jaan nahi maarta he is looking to get his line in right direction first... when things settle a little bit and ball gets a bit older, then you have those two left armers Shaheen and Shinwari who would target both Rohit Sharma and Virat Kohli and get them out...
     
  6. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    If u will look to target Rohit Sharma too much early on you will provide him easy deliveries to hit like Hassan Ali did in World Cup,. Is liye play according to plan, dismiss Dhawan first and then go after Rohit and Kohli in that middle spell of Shaheen and Shinwari where they would look to bowl quick with just a bit older ball.
     
  7. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Talented

    Apr 16, 2010
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    not sure what’s your obsession with India? I mean, their board n their govt don’t even spit at us and you have your head stuck in their a$$, for what?


    on their cricket forums, do they make posts like, “How to deal with Pak Pace bowlers”?
    NO!

    Most of their forums in Pakistan related threads are full of comments demeaning and making fun of Pakistan and it’s current state of cricket.

    How is your mindset any different from the past many PCB chiefs who were knocking at the BCCI’s door with a begging bowl?

    Their news media n their govt (that the Indian team players mostly support) continuously spews hate against us, they don’t stop from lying when it comes all different kinds of false and heinous allegations on our country, our army and out govt, while you are having orgasmic fantasies of dealing with their openers?

    You might come back n say, sports should be kept separate from politics.
    Guess what?
    You don’t need to tell this to me. The people who really need to be told this are Pakistan hating Indians - and there are an awful lot of them at powerful decision making positions.


    Sorry for being coming down harsh on you but I am not saying reply hate with hate.
    All I am saying, let’s have our own dignity and don’t waste our time and energies on them. Yes there are many good and peace loving Indians but their majority and their govt n it’s policies that controls their cricket, is not worth our time.
     
  8. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Bhai mein to India se nafrat karta hon.... I dont like indians one bit... India ko haraana sawab ka kaam hai meri nazar mein..
     
  9. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Are you talking about ODI or Test? You don't have luxury to get settle in ODI. Have to go full throttler from first ball.

    You still stuck on Shinwari? Mohammad Hasnain, Haris Rauf, Naseem Shah are much better, I even rate Wahab over him.
     
  10. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

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    left arm angle is the most difficult thing to negotiate in cricket...
     
  11. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    if u go full throtle first up u would spray the ball around and provide easy opportunities to batsmen to score easy runs. Its important to bowl right line and length first up and build pressure in your first spell. You would get atleast a wicket if u bowl proper channel with that new ball cus new ball is difficult to handle for every batsman. New ball per ziada jaan nahi lagayi jati just bowl in the channel and u will get a wicket or two with that new ball. Ball jab thora sa purana hota hai tab jaan lagayi jaati hai... cus u can control the semi new ball better as compared to totally new ball... these are the basics of cricket...
     
  12. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Talented

    Apr 16, 2010
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    I agree.
    There is absolutely nothing special about Shiwari. Not sure what's the hype?

    First and most basic problem.
    He holds the ball right in front of him, fully exposing the shinny side and his grip to the batsman. I mean, where the heck is Waqar Younis to coach him on hiding it?

    Second, which circumvents the problem above and perhaps tells us why he doesn't hide the seam and shine. He cannot swing. His height is just as Musa Khan. Not naturally designed for pace n swing bowling.
     
  13. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    We are talking about International level players, if they can't control the ball from get go, they should not be in team. Good reason to warm up and not show up straight from the bed. The ODI bowlers do not have luxury to start easy these days.
     
  14. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    He has good pace and fitness, he is strongly built, he has a left arm angle all these factors combine to make him an effective bowler in all formats.
     
  15. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Game ki dynamics bhi koi cheez hoti hein... chemistry physics maths hai unke laws hein isi tarah cricket ke bhi apne laws hein.. new ball per agar zor lagao ge to u wont be able to control it.. Gaari ahiste ahiste 1st gear se 5th gear mein le jayi jaati hai direct 5th gear maarne jao ge to gaari ure gi...
     
  16. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    This is why they do post match warm up.
    You will not understand because like Quantum Physics normal laws of everyday life do not apply to you.
     
  17. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Talented

    Apr 16, 2010
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    So pace bowlers should not put an extra effort with the new ball and bowl with slower speed?
    Zore nahi lagengey tou Shoaib Akhtar will be bowling like Saeed Ajmal.
     
  18. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Shoaib Akhtar ki baat aur hai he is a genuine speedster. I am talking about regular bowlers like Amir. Agar ziada zor lagane jayega to he will not be able to gain rhythm. Just bowl normally like u do in normal situations. If u try to overdo it, then there is a problem...
     
  19. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Warmup is a good thing but match situation is entirely different. No matter what kind of match you are playing in what kind of sport u are playing in it takes a bit of time getting used to conditions, getting the feel of the pitch and conditions, how much its swinging, what pace or trajectory one should bowl at on that pitch, it takes a bit of time in the middle to get used to no matter how much warmup u do....
     
  20. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Talented

    Apr 16, 2010
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    so, new ball sey zore nahi lagana and bowl just normal because it’s cricket dynamics.

    Aur jab ball purana Hojaey tou zore lagana hai and bowl abnormal bowling?
     
  21. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Purana ball control karna asaan hota hai new ball is difficult to control unless u are someone as expert at it as Waqar Younus or Shoaib Akhtar and they have a slingy action which supports that kind of bowling. Not every bowler can adopt that style of bowling. Express pace bowlers who have an action that supports that kind of bowling can bowl with pace like Brett Lee, Shaun Tait and Dale Steyn but even they will tell u they prefer bowling with that older ball more specially the Pakistani pacers who love to reverse swing it wait for the ball to get slightly old so that reverse comes into play...
     
  22. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Shahzad.Firdous's logic only Shahzad.Firdous can understand.
     
  23. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

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    Bhai practical experience hai.. itne saal cricket kheli hai captaincy ki hai even though at club level... international players jo aaj khel rahe hein Pakistan team mein like Sarfraz unke saath teenage puri guzari hai cricket kheli hai unke saath...
     
  24. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Logic yeh hai ab suno... aap jate hi zor lagate ho pata chalta hai pitch mein uneven bounce hai ya ziada bouncy pitch hai 2 -4 edges fly karke boundary per chali jati hein batsmen ko early momentum mil gaya ab woh settle down ho jayeinge aur aap under pressure ajao ge... is se better hai aap phele andar ja kar observe karo pitch kaise khel rahi hai conditions kaisi hein uske baad zor lagao... first up neither u know how a fresh pitch would react nor batsmen knows it... its a lottery.. is liye phele jo mistake karta hai woh early momentum concede kar deta hai... koi bhi phelwan akhare mein utarta hai foran utar kar waar nahi karta phele dekhta hai samne wala kis tarah khel raha hai us ke baad apne dao azmaata hai..
    @thair9999 @SwingNSeam
    yehi masla Shaheen Afridi ke saath Australia waale match mein hua tha us ne jaate hi zor lagaya tha aur Australia ko early momentum concede kar diya tha result yeh hua jo runs shuru mein diye the wohi museebat ban gaye Pakistan ke liye... talking about world cup match against Australia..
     
  25. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Bhai app kee jitni umer hai us say zaida hamara tajerba hai (I watched Imran, Zaheer, Maindad live and also played some club level cricket as well). App akalay hee to nahi cricket khaltay rahi, hum sub zaida nahi lakin kuch to janteey hain.
     
  26. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

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    I know not everyone is Akram's level but international level player should not take many over to feel the pitch few ball should be enough.

     
  27. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Tracer Bullet

    Dec 11, 2010
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    Pakistan should avoid playing India until India stops torturing the Kashmiris. Simple.
     
  28. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Talented

    Apr 16, 2010
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    agar zore lagana he hai tou phir kia faraq part hai k ander jaa kar obser karo etc?

    Aur agar tumhari baat maan li aur maan lo k pitch observe karli etc aur pata chala k zore nahi lagana tou ab pace bowler kia kareh? spin?
     
  29. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Talented

    Apr 16, 2010
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    yes, not even talk about their cricket.
     
  30. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Right on.
     
  31. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    International players should not take many overs to feel the pitch is right... but u just cant go in and straightaway hit the ground running... cus if u do so anything can happen as a batsman or a bowler... u need atleast an over or two of a sighter both as batsman or bowler aur agar batsman ho to u need to know one mistake is good enough to send u back to pavilion bowler to phir bhi poora din peetne ke baad bhi last over mein wicket le sakta hai but batsman ke liye eik hi chance hai,,, doesnt matter if he is batting on 0, 100 or 300...
     
  32. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Let me figure out what you are saying; So as a batsman, they should not take risk and settle down, makes perfect sense. And as a bowler you should not try to take advantage when the batsman is not settle down and wait for them to do so. Then you go full on and use more energy to take the wicket of a settle batsman you helped to settle.
    Is this what you mean?
     
  33. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    It all depends on a pitch, in a low scoring game, every run is important... u try too hard at the start, couple of edges fly to the boundary all of a sudden batsman gets into his zone, then it becomes difficult to get him out cus he has felt ball on his bat although he has edged it above the slips, edge above slip shots are often played deliberately to get some easy runs... now batsman feels confident... as compared to when he first arrived on the scene and will go onto score atleast 40 runs... these 40 runs means other batsmen coming in have a start to consolidate upon and all of a score ends up at 280,, this is what has happened to Pakistan against Australia and New Zealand in their conditions alot... their pitches are bouncy and Pakistani pacers when they see green in the pitch try to bowl too quick and spray the ball around result is that they are not able to bowl opposition out to manageable score and in the end they lose the matches... so its always better to just have a sighter both as a batsman or bowler.. remember koi bhi pehlwan jaate hi apne dao nahi azmaata ... kabhi kabhi aisa bhi hota hai aap ki opposition eik haath ki maar ho aur aap apna dao jaldi khel gaye aur jeeti hui baazi haar gaye hon..
     
  34. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Waise bhi new ball agar aap jaga mein kar lo to new ball mein waise hi itni power hoti hai ke aap ko 1 ya 2 wicket zaroor milegi agar aap eik line aur length per bowling karo... u dont need to experiment with that new ball too much.. it is already doing so much.. u just need to bowl right channel.. wickets will automatically come to u when bowl one line and length with that new ball..
     
  35. thair9999
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    thair9999 Emerging Player

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Still can't get your logic. First you want bowlers to test the pitch, then they already know how pitch will behave slow, fast or bouncy. They don't have to try hard in start because "aap ko 1 ya 2 wicket zaroor milegi agar aap eik line aur length per bowling karo", then the bowlers have to try hard to dislodge well settled batsman.

    Bohat acha howa kee tum sarif club level tak hee khailey bhai. Agar time milay to aik bar phir start say apnay post read karo, phir batana kay kuch samajh aie?
     
  36. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Talented

    Apr 16, 2010
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    Hur jaga aik Misbah hota hai.
    We got our own.
     
  37. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    You have to bowl stump to stump, wicket to wicket, if u provide any room to batsmen whether on off side or the leg side these days wickets are so true that it just takes a feather touch to send the ball to the boundary... u want to enter into a match u dont want to be knocked out in the first punch or first round so u got to take every step cautiously particularly the initial steps in a match..
     
  38. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Pakistan must take chance with Naseem Shah with that new ball as Amirs partner... he can provide them breakthroughs upfront with quick wicket to wicket bowling... he can be a handful with that new ball in his hand..
     
  39. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    When India's opening batsmen wont get easy runs against our opening bowlers, they would take a chance, this is where we have an opportunity,,, this is exactly what their opening bowlers Bhuvneshwar and Bhumra do to our opening batsmen Imam and Fakhar...
     
  40. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    India's opening bowlers keep it really tight and dont provide anything loose,, result is ultimately our opening batsmen take a chance to break the shackles and they get out in the process,.. this is exactly what we must do to them too...
     

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