If you weren't Pakistani would you ever visit Pakistan?

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Mercenary, Jun 6, 2010.

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  1. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
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    If you weren't born as a Pakistani and you'd never lived in or been to Pakistan, would you ever want to visit the country?

    Places like Egypt, Brazil, Spain, etc are popular destinations for tourists but Pakistan has never been in that same bracket.

    I was born in Pakistan and I came to the UK when I was 2 years old, since then I've only been back about half a dozen times. All of those occasions were family related, either a wedding, a funeral or a family vacation. I've never been to Pakistan just to see the place, we come from a small village and apart from our village I've only ever been to 3 towns, the biggest of which was Rawalpindi.

    I can't think of any reason why I'd visit Pakistan if I hadn't been born a Pakistani. But that also applies to many countries like those in North Europe, South East Asia and Australasia.

    In fact although I live in the UK, I can't think of any reason why I'd want to come to the UK as a tourist. Most of the major attractions are royal family related and that doesn't interest me. Plus the pound is far too strong to make a visit to the UK financially viable.

    So what about you?

    Be honest. Would you visit Pakistan if you werent Pakistani?

    Also if you're not Pakistani then just apply the question to your own country of origin.
     
  2. Bart
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    Bart Administrator

    Dec 18, 2009
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    Depends on your interests I guess, tourists used to come over for Northern Areas, Historical sites etc when things were not this deep in shit.
     
  3. Observer
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    Observer Emerging Player

    Feb 27, 2010
    689
    In the current situation? NO.
    I only return to Pakistan because I am of Pakistan origin!

    Pakistan is missing so much due to the corrupt rulers. The overseas Pakistanis have so much to offer, but cannot deliver because of the gangster rule in Pakistan.

    So much potential and so much waste :(
     
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  4. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
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    Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar Emerging Player

    Mar 18, 2010
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    no. Pakistan is not marketed properly. plus Pakistanis are so obsessed with religion and the righteous outrage and violence that accompanies it. you can't attract people to a country with an attitude like that.

    so, the sad/truthful answer is that if I weren't Pakistani, I wouldn't visit.
     
  5. d0gers
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    d0gers Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 22, 2010
    6
    I would've visited to go up north. Pakistan is a popular destination for hiking and trekking in the Northern Areas. It is also top of the list (along with Nepal) for high altitude mountaineering, with over a 100 peaks higher than 7000m (including 5 of the world's 14 8000+m) found in the Himalayas/Karakoram mountains.

    Although even this activity is slowing down because of the security situation in the country, as well as the recent landslide that has blocked off a large chunk of the Karakoram Highway and created a huge lake on the Hunza river that is threatening the lives of many in the region.
     
  6. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,690
    I think the main problem with Pakistan is (as mentioned above) the religious bigots and zealots who ruin the country's image on the international stage and ruin the lives of the local people too.

    Otherwise Pakistan is one of the most diverse countries when it comes to touristy things to do.

    If you want historic sites then there's the Badhshai Mosque in Lahore, the Shalimar Gardens, MohenjoDaro, Harappa and many other sites.

    If you want mountaineering there's K2 and a whole range of huge mountains in the Karakoram range.

    The weather fluctuates from blistering heat to icy cold depending on what part you decide to visit.

    There's so many different cultures and races within our borders. You have Chinese Pakistanis, African Pakistanis, etc.

    Pakistan lacks two main things. The first is a stable security situation with a competent government and the second is the infrastructure to transport tourists quickly and easily between the many interesting sites.

    Personally I'm not sure that tourism is the sort of industry that should be encouraged on a large scale in Pakistan. It's an industry that brings it's own problems.
     
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  7. Waq
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    Waq Emerging Player

    May 9, 2010
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    I am born and bred in the UK abut I love Pakistan to bits. I love visiting the three big cities and exporing the great outdoors. I love the lifestyle, people and food.

    Would I love it if I was not of Pakistani heritage? I would say, probably not. The reason I relate so well to Pakistan and get a special feeling that compares to no other is because it forms part of my identity. Without the identity it is just another country and would probably feel the same about Bangladesh if my roots were from there.
     
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  8. Observer
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    Observer Emerging Player

    Feb 27, 2010
    689
    Exactly...It's not about money alone. We need to do it our way i.e. in a way most Pakistanis feel comfortable.

    I don't agree that it's only the religious guys who are to be blamed. Surely they have their share (a big chunk), but others have their share too. First of all we can "thank" the corrupt military, and also our politicians, bureaucrats etc. have their share. The problem is that all these parties refuse to think big. They have no vision and always end up making short sighted "solutions" just to fill their own pockets.

    Fully agree about the potential in Pakistan. In an around-Pakistan-tour the tourists would see what they would have to travel many more miles in most other places......without compromising on the quality of historical places, nature etc.
     
  9. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,690
    I'd disagree with that because there's many countries that have dictatorships or corrupt politicians but they still do ok. Look at China, it's probably one of the most oppressive regimes in the world but that doesn't stop investment, interest and tourism.

    Why?

    Because people aren't scared of getting blown up on every street corner if they dare to visit. If we're talking specifically about people wanting to come to Pakistan (which is what this thread is about) then it's all down to the violence of sectarianism.

    Even cricket teams who are paid money to visit the country dont want to come and that's got nothing to do with corrupt politicians because they dont care about that. The same teams were happy enough to tour under Zia's regime. It's all about personal safety.
     
  10. Observer
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    Observer Emerging Player

    Feb 27, 2010
    689
    Because the have much less corruption and they are far more nationalistic. We are on top of the world reg. corruption and ready to sell anything to achieve western aid.

    First of all I didn't say the mullahs don't have their share. They are involved (heavily), but our local masters are the military high ups. They are nothing but a mercenary army waging war in their own country. You are right that the mullahs are also inciting violence. The question is who does allow such acts? isn't it a relationship? You scratch my back and I will scratch yours i.e. The military can carry out their anti-Pakistan policies and the mullahs can continue their own "religious" business :(

    The fault is that our awam is either totally with somebody or totally against somebody. There is not much in between. They are ready to worship and do all kinds of shirk - if just their master tell them - be it the religious or the political master.

    I'd still say that many parties have their share - some of them a bigger share than others. The size of the share is only limited to what they are capable of. The military has muscles and can do more damage than anybody else. The most sad part is that a marvellous religion is also being used for dirty reasons.
     
  11. My Mind
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    My Mind Youngsta Beauty

    Jun 11, 2010
    5
    never then less we will return to the best inshallah

    as u know (arooj ke baad zawal and zawal ke baad arooj) so we hope for best all ways.
     
  12. TAK
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    TAK Youngsta Beauty

    Feb 15, 2010
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    arooj 1947 say 1975/79 tak tha?
     
  13. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,312
    It depends on my birth country ( if it wasnt Pakistan)

    Any other muslim country then why not
    Non muslims then most probably no
     
  14. Rizzy
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    Rizzy Talented

    Mar 1, 2010
    2,129
    I probably wouldn't visit in this current state Pakistan is in, only real reason for me to visit are due to my relatives over there.

    Probably the nicest and humblest people I have known, and this is said by everyone who has visited/met them. Also among the few families I have met who are very close and have no family infighting at all despite being a large extended family.

    In Pakistan we have some of the most beautiful scenery, weather, tourist attractions etc. but sadly due to insecurity and lawlessness, its not a place I would visit if I didn't have relatives there.
     
  15. Saul Goodman
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    Saul Goodman Smooth Operator

    Jun 12, 2011
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    I went in 1989 as a kid, before the americans decided we had terrorists. It was awesome:D Somehow our problems are perpetuated by hypocrites who claim to spread freedom but practice something else.
     
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  16. Rizzy
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    Rizzy Talented

    Mar 1, 2010
    2,129
    I went about 4 years ago, and I loved it, since then, relatives over there have been robbed in broad daylight (2-3pm) An armed gang parked outside, when some guy who had come to repair something walked out of the house, they stuck foot through door and entered house with guns. since it was middle of the day, all the men were at work and only kids and ladies were at home. They put a gun to the head of one of my cousins, to stop my auntie from shouting/screaming for help. They then locked everyone up in a room and robbed the house. Took quite a lot of money and jewellery and then did a runner in the car. Useless police couldn't do much.

    Only good thing was that nobody got hurt.
     
  17. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
    2,701
    The media image means Pakistan is presented in a very negative light, some of the image is merited, some not so. There are some wonderful, awe-inspiring places in Pakistan but there is a lot of lazy journalism here in the West who like to perpetuate the idea that Pakistan is full of militant maulvis, honour killers and Taliban footsoldiers.
     
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  18. Temptation*
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    Temptation* Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 18, 2010
    229
    No, probably wouldn't.
     
  19. Omar
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    Omar Cricistan Moderator

    Jan 27, 2010
    25,682
    Doubt it very much!
     
  20. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,690
    I dont think Pakistan will ever become an Indian Goa type destination where you get people going to get drunk and hedonise (and thank God for the Mullahs for that).

    But if we can get safety back under control then we could be a big centre for mountain climbers, historical tourists and backpackers and the like.
     
  21. Bouncer
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    Bouncer Talented

    Jan 14, 2010
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    Why should a tourist not allowed to drink in Pakistan while on Vacation?

    Alcohol is no different than what sheesha is for arabs and probably what chai/paan is for pakistani muslims. Did UK ever objected to arrivals of arab/pakistani tourists (well they get on plane as tourists, go to the restroom, rip apart their passports and upon landing claim asylum at the immigration desk) because they would drink chai / smoke sheesha and consume paan?
     
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  22. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
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    Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar Emerging Player

    Mar 18, 2010
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    I know eh... you would think given how much pakistanis despise alcohol, there would be no reason to ban it. after all if people dislike alcohol so much, they clearly wouldnt drink any themselves. so why the need for a ban?
     
  23. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,690
    Bouncer Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar

    If you go to France you cant wear a Burkha, if you come to a Muslim country alcohol is restricted. Different strokes for different folks.
     
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  24. Bouncer
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    Bouncer Talented

    Jan 14, 2010
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    It would be a valid counter argument if French (non muslim) women could wear burka and they only try to stop Muslim women from wearing burka.

    On other hand a vast majority of Pakistan indulges in activities that westerns do like alcohol, drugs heck they even go further than that and indulge in unsafe sexual behaviors like child molestation but if a non child molester, honest, god fearing, humanity loving foreigner is going to visit Pakistan and wants to have alcohol or wants to put his arms around his wife, that is a ln insult to Islam and Pakistan ?
     
  25. Pak Fan
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    Pak Fan Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 4, 2010
    186
    MT, I really don't understand you. you seem like the most self-hating person I have ever seen. It seems like you were raised a Muslim in a foreign country but have renounced the religion and You don't like anything about Pakistan or Islam. I've been following your views for some time, and Your views comprise of the narrow-minded media of the west. You think all of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Middle East are ruled by Mullahs, and religious nutjobs, and there are no good Muslim people AYWHERE. When the fact is that there are a lot of good decent Muslim people out there who follow Islam in the right way. You seem like one of those white Americans who hate everything about Islam, and are completely uneducated. what do you know? to be completely honest, i don't think youve ever picked up a book on Islam, and if you have, you block your mind to everything you see. If you don't like Pakistan, go somewhere else to express yourself. The majority of the people on this website love Pakistan and Islam, and would be willing to lay down their lives for it. At least I am. You don't belong here.
     
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  26. Bouncer
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    Bouncer Talented

    Jan 14, 2010
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    and your opinion/thoughts on the topic of the discussion is.......? or is the topic completely not worth discussing to you ?
     
  27. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,690
    Like yourself I'm very pro-Pakistan, despite all it's faults it's the place that everyone identifies me with.

    I live in the UK, my dad has lived here and so has my Grandad. You cant tell my accent from a natives but at the end of the day, I and the descendants of my family will always be asked 'where are you from'

    MT's opinions are the opposite of yours and sometimes mine too but that doesn't mean he has no right to express himself here.

    Forums are for discussions and debtates not for the purpose of agreeing with everyone and every person thinking the same thing. The day we prevent those with the opposite view from expressing themselves is the day we may as well give up civilisation and go back into the jungles.
     
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  28. Pak Fan
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    Pak Fan Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 4, 2010
    186
    I don't mind other people expressing their opinions, honestly. I am accepting that other people have differing opinions and i really respect that. What i do mind is when other people attack my way of life and attack Islam. When they attack people in Pakistan, and generalize the entire nation as a cesspool of ignorance. I accept that Pakistan has many flaws more than other nations, but i don't see any positive contribution when someone criticizes everything. Thats a negative attitude.
    I live in America and have many different types of friends. One of them is Israeli and he plans on joining up with the IDF next year. Me and him have many engaging conversations, and obviously we disagree on almost everything about the Holy Land, but we have mutual respect, and are very good friends even today.
    And as far as the topic of the thread goes, I would definitely visit Pakistan if I wasn't Pakistani. It is an increasingly important region of the world. and also there are plenty of interesting places to visit . Go up north, if anything.
     
  29. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
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    Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar Emerging Player

    Mar 18, 2010
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    Pak Fan let me know if you buy up this forum. I will be glad to leave when that happens. until then please keep your advice to yourself. if and when I feel like it, I will post what I think. you are more than welcome to not read it.

    and lol at wanting to lay down your life for Pakistan and Islam while living in the evil west... keyboard warrior jokers...
     
  30. Saul Goodman
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    Saul Goodman Smooth Operator

    Jun 12, 2011
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    I hope you didnt get robbed again.....by the police.
     
  31. Pak Fan
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    Pak Fan Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 4, 2010
    186
    You don't know me MT. How do you know what I've done for Islam or Pakistan? For your information, I do my best to help Pakistan by volunteering at different charities, as most Pakistani Americans already do. My sister works for a U.S. congressman, and influences his support of the Pakistani community. He argues against the U.S.'s wars in the Middle East and Pakistan.
    What I would like to know is what you do for Pakistan? Now I realize that I pity you. You have no one to fight for, no one to defend. All you do is sit back and criticize. You don't believe in a cause greater than yourself.
     
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  32. Victorious Pakistan
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    Victorious Pakistan Smooth Operator

    Feb 29, 2012
    4,777
    Away from all the controversies Pakistan is actuall a very beautifull country.
    Living in England, i can safely say it is nothing like Pakistan. All Englands sites are prodominatly in London and have to do witht he Royals as merc said.
    Pakistan has a heck of lot of beautifull places to visit and some wonderfull historical sites. More then most other countries.
    Yes i would go there, Some of the places in Pakistan are uncompareable.
     
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  33. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
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    Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar Emerging Player

    Mar 18, 2010
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    wow you seem like a selfless saint working tirelessly for the cause of Pakistan while living in the big bad US. please tell me what else is super awesome about you. obviously humility and discretion are your strong points.
     
  34. Pak Fan
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    Pak Fan Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 4, 2010
    186
    Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar Where I live is not relevant to the discussion at hand. I never said I was awesome, I have plenty of flaws, just like any other person. My point is to say I do my BEST with what I am given. I don't agree with the U.S. political system, but I try to change it. I try to make a positive influence. And as far as the "saint" jibe goes, where did I say I'm a saint? I said I volunteer for charities, that is a part of who I am. I do my best to make a difference, and I do my best to help people in Pakistan who need assistance. I have been blessed enough to be able to help others. I have that opportunity, so i take it. The question is what do you do?
     
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  35. Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
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    Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar Emerging Player

    Mar 18, 2010
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    that is absolutely wonderful. I'm sure god is very happy with you for documenting all this information about yourself so humbly on an internet forum.

    as for me... during the day, I am a billionaire playboy. at night, I wear my cape and fight crime. not going to say any more lest I should give away my identity.
     
  36. Pak Fan
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    Pak Fan Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 4, 2010
    186
    Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar. You are the one who called me "keyboard warrior", so I'm only proving to you that I put my money where my mouth is. Unlike you. I don't see you fighting the mullahs out in Pakistan, do I? You don't have the backbone or the courage.
     
  37. Feather
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    Feather Head Surfer

    Dec 19, 2009
    2,250
    If I weren't a Pakistani I would not visit Pakistan. I am very Pro Pakistani at heart and even though often I have been accused of being Pro US in the past when people talk to me about Pakistan I give them a earful as to what the US has done wrong while I am in the US. I have said some awful things to American people.

    The fact I can say them and not have my family put in danger or be subjected to any kind of harm makes me like the US and dislike Pakistan. Recently when bombs were going of and people couldn't even be bothered to take the streets but are more then happy to take the streets for their favorite political party.

    Made me dislike Pakistan and Pakistanis so much I can't even put that into words. I have always wanted to go back but for a period of about one year I kept telling myself never going back to that country but then when I talk to family and I see the same thinking in my own household it makes me think...

    For this reason I now want to go back to Pakistan more then ever and contribute toward the country in a positive manner. I know for a fact I will be going back to Pakistan sooner then later and that is because I want to do my part in making sure the country I was born in and I am known by least benefits somehow from what I have learned here in the US.
     
  38. Feather
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    Feather Head Surfer

    Dec 19, 2009
    2,250
    Pak Fan I happen to agree with Mercenary and Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar . If you ask me I have more then handful of good reasons to be in agreement with them.

    My question to you is very simple. If you weren't a Pakistani and if your sister wasn't a Pakistani. If you were aware of how things happen within Pakistan and how innocents are stoned to death or killed like wild animals. Would you honestly visit Pakistan or support Pakistan?

    Now that I think about it while you are at it please answer another question. Do you deny Pakistan has massive issues to deal with?

    I am a Pakistani but the fact of the matter is...I have every right to state what I feel about the country and its people. If that means I might be disliked so be it. I would much rather not join a group of idiots who thinking killing on name of Allah is the right thing to do. Jahil log! you will have to pardon the like of us if we don't want to have anything to do with these people at times.
     
  39. Bouncer
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    Bouncer Talented

    Jan 14, 2010
    1,016
    Pak Fan are your observations and feelings about Pakistan and Pakistani society based on the observations/experiences when you lived a practical life in Pak or whenever you visited Pak or lived there, your elders took responsibilities for everything in Pak?
     
  40. karachigirl
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    karachigirl Tracer Bullet

    Sep 6, 2011
    5,259
    Just a question: Don't a lot of foreginers go to Pakistan to attend the big universities there?
     

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