Is it a good decision to select Hasnain over Shinwari?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Del, Apr 18, 2019.

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  1. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Talented

    Sep 1, 2010
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    Just for info - wahab and sami are not the only pace bowlers to have played the game. Why do we only use their example?
     
  2. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    because they are counter examples to the idiotic assumption that pace is everything. It isn't. skill is needed. pace alone means nothing - these two prove that. its not that complicated.

    the question is does Hasnain have skill. he may have, he may not. we have no idea of knowing, and neither do management which is why I think its a stupid idea to pick him purely on pace with no assessment of skill.
     
  3. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Talented

    Sep 1, 2010
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    Personally I think your assessment is too simplistic. People talk about Sami, yes he turned out to be a dud. But let’s look at skill. He had it in abundance when he started his career. Reverse swing, new ball swing, pace (real pace - 155kph).

    Personally his decline started when he stopped having a fast bowler’s mentality. Look at his body language pre-2004 and post India 2004 India series. Massive difference. He failed in that India series and never recovered. He didn’t have enough confidence in himself. As opposed to Shoaib who had an equally poor series vs India but he never lost his mentality and confidence.

    Is it Sami’s own fault? Yes, he wasn’t mentally strong enough. But you can’t use that as a yardstick to judge fast bowling.

    Wahab is a completely different story - great post by shokoto highlighting his technical deficiencies.

    My point is it takes a lot to be a successful fast bowler, it’s not binary pace - skill = crap

    Pace - skill + mental strength could also work. Maybe they saw something in his make up that works. Maybe it’s the novelty factor. Remember a lot of bowlers, because of the unknown factor have a great first season but fall off if they don’t continue learning.

    Even if he’s one of those one season wonders - one season that wins you the wc could be worth it
     
  4. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    He says Sami and Wahab but then a counter argument is Pat Cummins, Rabada, Ferguson, Starc, Oshane Thomas, Ngidi, Steyn, Mark Wood, Bumrah, Shami, the bottom line is he doesn't know much about fast bowling. Move on.
     
  5. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    we'll have to agree to disagree - but im not sure our conclusions from the data are that different. its moot whether you have the amazing skill to be able to ascertain someones mental fortitude, you might well be right, but the conclusion is the same - pace alone is no indicator of anything.

    in terms of novelty, yes, it MIGHT lead to a flukey first appearance, I agree that that can sometimes happen - Wahab actually is a good example of that. but if the team selection is based on MAYBE or MIGHT, might as well fill it all with the women's team, because they MIGHT act as a novelty factor. I don't think any professional sports team anywhere in the world relies on a thesis of MIGHT/MAYBE for their selections in the most prestigious tournaments in the sport.

    I think you are right though, IF they saw something special in his make up that makes him work. I think you are right that this is not only a justifiable reason, but there is evidence that it has worked in some cases - Akram, inzi are the first two examples that immediately come to mind. unfortunately though, thats not what they are saying to the press. all we've really heard is "pace", and thats why if thats all his selection is based on, its ridiculous.

    so in conclusion, if there is a particularity about him, then it is a justified selection, but they are both shit at communicating that, and his first outing in the uae certainly suggests that particularity is well hidden - he was probably the worst bowler on show from both sides. its not an excuse to say hes new, or young, or it was dead wickets - all of those are true, but if any of them apply, they are excellent reasons not to pick him. you can't have it both ways.

    either that, or there is no particularity about him (yet), and they have picked him because of this idiotic obsession with pace, in which case its a terrible reason to select someone.
     
  6. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Talented

    Sep 1, 2010
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    Oh man, you’re too touchy about the word pace! So what if they only said pace. Pace is an important bowling attribute. No one picks a bowler paced on pace alone. You have to stop taking it so literally.

    And why are we only judging the one pace bowler in the team’s skill and mental level? We don’t have skilful bowlers period. All our bowlers are very mediocre.

    Shaheen barely moves the ball, Junaid isn’t the bowler he used to be. Hasan has ability but has been very inconsistent.

    You say he was the least effective bowler on either side? Was he? He had one very bad match but in general he looked a lot more threatening than Abbas the line and length fans’ dreamboat. In fact he was the only bowler in the initial matches that troubled Khawaja and Finch.

    Having said all that, I do feel it is a bit early for him and think Rauf might have been a better bet at this point in their careers. At the very least they could have tried him out in the Aus series - but we know the stupid decisions put selectors and team management make. But honestly, we need something different from the predictable samey samey bowlers we’ve had for the last couple of years and if that’s hasnain then I welcome it.
     
  7. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Talented

    Sep 1, 2010
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    Good counter argument - I agree with it

    Discussion is healthy, no harm in it
     
  8. thair9999
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    thair9999 Youngsta Beauty

    Oct 17, 2010
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    Shinwari = Sami Version2.0 no need for him
     
  9. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Emerging Player

    Apr 16, 2010
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    Those two bouncers is what I am talking about.

    THAT'S the kind of pace bowling charm that has been choked to death by T20.

    The bowlers look tired in today's cricket - a freaking 75 runs are scored in the last 4 overs. What the F kind of cricket is this ????

    Unfortunately, I think I know what's coming for Hasnain. And it's as said as it gets for this rare glimpse of hope.

    Lets see how soon before he gets signed up by these various Tamasha leagues and he starts playing a lot more cricket than his physical body can afford - and he becomes another medium pace slow and tired bowler.
     

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