1. Hi Guest we're sorry for the downtime but the site should be up and working now...

    Click here

Mahinder Singh Dhoni - The Greatest Captain in India's history

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Mercenary, Apr 2, 2011.

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 0)

  1. Mercenary
    Offline

    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,711
    I've been saying it for years now. This is the strongest team in India's history and Dhoni is the reason behind it. With this win I think he's finally stepped out of Sourav Ganguly's shadow.

    Ganguly changed India's mindset and made them believe that they could be aggressive too, Dravid played caretaker before Dhoni came in as the prodigal son and took India to the top of the cricket world.

    Well done Dhoni, you fully deserved this win.
     
  2. mmkextreme_1
    Offline

    mmkextreme_1 Talented

    Jan 20, 2010
    1,007
    Yes he is the Imran Khan of "India"
     
  3. BoomBoom786
    Offline

    BoomBoom786 Talented

    Apr 12, 2010
    1,037
    Absolutely. One of the greatest captains in the history of international cricketer. I am full of praise for his leadership and the way he has transformed Indian cricket over the last 5 years or so. He has achieved many great triumphs and statuses during his time in charge. A fantastic captain.
     
  4. iho
    Offline

    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
    4,311
    absolutely
     
  5. Markhor
    Offline

    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
    2,701
    An outstanding captain who deserves all the plaudits he gets.The great thing about Dhoni is that he has his feet on the ground and is a humble individual.He is always planning and thinking about the next match.Pakistani captains and administrators love wallowing on past glories i.e the 2009 T20 WC and lack long-term thinking.You have to give credit where it is due and Dhoni has led India from the front.

    I don't agree with Ian Botham on a lot of things but he said today in the Sky studio that India has dozens of media outlets,sports and news channels which scrutinize absolutely everything that Dhoni does as captain,yet he still copes under the pressure and does his job efficiently.

    Pakistan are mentally weak and cannot keep their emotions or temperament in check.This is where we need to learn from India,how to keep cool under the circumstances.
     
  6. Rizzy
    Offline

    Rizzy Talented

    Mar 1, 2010
    2,129
    He's a very good captain but it helps quite a bit when you also have the team and dependable players. Ponting from being regarded as the best captain is now being highly criticised because they have lost many of their dependable players. Smith also is getting scrutinised but he's also lost some quality players and is playing with a fairly young side. Vettori, a captain who leads from the front and who has had more responsibilities than other captains feels he should retire from captaincy.

    But yh credit to the guy, he leads well considering how much pressure there is on him, and also leading some very experienced players.
     
  7. CORNERED TIGER
    Offline

    CORNERED TIGER Emerging Player

    Nov 2, 2010
    716
    Imran Khan , Arjuna Ranatunga, Stephen Fleming n MS DHONI the top 4 best captains in my humble opinion!
     
  8. Mohammad Aamer
    Offline

    Mohammad Aamer Emerging Player

    May 3, 2010
    552
    Agree with riz here...I'm not taking away the credit from him but he has had match-winners all around him all the time. Tendu, Sehwag, Ghambir, Yuvraj, Bhaji, Zaheer....great job by him though.
     
  9. Nadeem
    Offline

    Nadeem Emerging Player

    Dec 22, 2009
    650
    Stephen Fleming’s hadn’t won a trophy of significant to justify himself as one of the “best” captains. He was a fine player in his prime, but an average captain.
     
  10. CORNERED TIGER
    Offline

    CORNERED TIGER Emerging Player

    Nov 2, 2010
    716
    really?
    justify that 2 me?
    fleming took poor kiwis 2 semi final of 1999 World Cup
    won champions trophy in 2000 beating india in final in kenya
    won test series in england (1st ever series win in england in 1999)
    won test series in west indies (1st ever series win in west indies 2002 )
    draw test series in australia in 2001/02 in australia (when many other so called great teams of that time got thrashing like 3/0 5/0 go check it pal)
    won test series vs india in nz in 1998/99
    took kiwis 2 semi final in 2007 World Cup
    led his side 2 there first ever home test win vs south africa in 2004
    AND WHO CAN FORGET HIS 134 NOT OUT VS SOUTH AFRICA IN WORLD CUP 2003
    and with the players he had he achived alot more then u could wish for!

    wat else u want? a mango n apple?
     
  11. Sir John
    Offline

    Sir John Tracer Bullet

    May 25, 2010
    6,815
    dhoni is a lucky captain.
     
  12. attidude.asif
    Offline

    attidude.asif Emerging Player

    Mar 8, 2010
    989
    He is A lucky captain when u have best opening players with u, gud fielders great n expensive coach, players like laxman and dravid in test, players like kohli n gambhir who can play positvely and sensibly u gotta b lucky..... same was the case wid ricky ponting....
     
  13. Nadeem
    Offline

    Nadeem Emerging Player

    Dec 22, 2009
    650
    Your statistics represent a captain who’s failed.

    We tend to forget what pointing has achieved during his illustrious career. Most captains would settle for a single world cup, not Ricky Pointing.


    Ricky pointing achievements whilst captain:

    • Most Cricket World Cups won as captain: 2
    • Undefeated as Captain in World Cups (25 matches)
    • Most consecutive Test victories won as captain: 16
     
  14. CORNERED TIGER
    Offline

    CORNERED TIGER Emerging Player

    Nov 2, 2010
    716
    hahahahahaahahahaha this is 2 funny
    ricky ponting a good captain?
    nice joke pal
    lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
    just coz he won 2 wc dnt mean he is good 2 b honest he rubbish
    1st australian captain 2 lose 3 ashes series in over 100 years 2 england
    1st australian captain 2 lose at home in a test series vs south africa

    he won those 2 world cups not coz of his captaincy but coz he had LEGENDS of game in those team!

    stephen fleming didnt had any legend with him and still won a lot
    wat happend 2 ponting when he ddint had those legends? lol

    i bet u dnt even understand that art of captaincy!
    ave u ever played a dam single club match?
    lollllllll
    i feel sorry 4 u coz u only talking abt stats... wich ponting had!

    fleming is with out a question one of the greatest captains ever!
    if u dnt trust me ask some 1 else!

    and one last thing u said ponting won this n that ok i knw he won alot... is that how u judge a captain? lol
    wat abt captains before world cups ? n before odi cricket?
    frank worrel is another 1 who comes 2 mind as a great captain!
    now before u reply with odd reply... just think wat a captaincy is...
    fleming is a true leader ...
    ponting is with out a question a great batsman but a captain nope... i dnt think so pal!
    its not alwys abt wining the wc ... 2 become a great captain!

    IMRAN KHAN, ARJUNA RANTUNA, STEPHEN FLEMING, MS DHONI N FRANK WORRELL ARE TRUE LEADERS! they led by example... i knw ponting made 140 in wc 2003 not gna take anything away from him.... but just think the start he got from hayden and gilchrist 100 in abt 15 overs! that made it easy 4 him .. in 2011 wc when ponting not been getting good starts by openers ... he has falied big time as a captain, i knw now u gna say he made 100 vs india so wat... that didnt win aussie that match!

    nways its ur baffling opinion.....wich wnt make any differences 2 me at all..!!
     
  15. Nadeem
    Offline

    Nadeem Emerging Player

    Dec 22, 2009
    650
    Clearly we have our own definitions of best captains. But trophies define a player’s career not winning odd test and ODI matches here and there. Had Imran not won the world cup in 1992 or Dhoni winning the world cup this year, would they still be regarded as legends? I highly doubt it.
     
  16. Mercenary
    Offline

    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,711
    I'm totally with Tiger on this one.

    Ponting is a captain who was carried by his matchwinners, he inherited a champion team from Waugh and sat back and rode the rollercoaster.

    He let Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath and others win match after match for Australia. But when Ponting lost his matchwinners he started to lose matches and series.

    Imran had retired before the 1992 World Cup and was already considered Paksitans greatest ever captain and one of the best in the history of the game. The 1992 World Cup cemented his reputation but it was hardly Imran's greatest achievement. Imran's greatest achievement was drawing 3 test series with the invincible West Indies side which would have crushed Pontings Aussies.

    Dhoni was already considered a great captain. He led India to a drawn test series against South Africa in South Africa and he beat Australia in India twice. Dhoni didn't need this World Cup but it has added to his reputation.

    Coming on to Fleming, everyone accepts that Fleming was arguably the best captain of our era. He took a weak New Zealand side and made them competitive.

    At the end of the day it comes down to how you're defining a captain. I think you are saying that success on it's own is good enough to define great captaincy but I'd disagree with that
     
  17. Shahzad.Firdous
    Offline

    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
    12,456
    Imran Khan won the WC with a completely young team whereas Dhoni had so many experienced players in the team. Imran Khan selected his own players - Wasim Akram, Aamer Sohail, Inzamam, Waqar all selected and mentored by Imran whereas dhoni dint select the players himself he already had likes of sachin, sehwag, laxman, ganguly, dravid, yuvraj ,......available to him. Dhonis leadership is just like Pontings with all the great players whereas Imran was a one man leadership and an inspiration for everyone so nowhere u can compare as great a captain as Imran with dhoni
     
  18. Nadeem
    Offline

    Nadeem Emerging Player

    Dec 22, 2009
    650
    Great captains have always inspired the team (that’s there job), regardless of the abilities of the players at their disposal. You can’t use the players in which pointing ‘inherited’ as an excuse for making him a weak captain. Pakistan has had many match winners, yet our captains have failed to utilize their skills effective enough for them to win a major trophy bar the T20.

    Making a competitive team now makes a captain a legend, a great and the best. If so, why aren’t Younis khan and Inzamam ul haq regard as one of the best? After all, they made the team which they ‘inherited’ competitive.

    Shahzad.Firdous makes a great point about the experience Indian team winning the current world cup.

    I’m in agreement in regards to Imran captaincy (although my knowledge is limited).
     
  19. CORNERED TIGER
    Offline

    CORNERED TIGER Emerging Player

    Nov 2, 2010
    716
    ;p; there he goes again hahahahahahhaahah bye bye pal ur just 2 funny hahahhahaha dam it just 2 funny lol but i only wish i could agree with u lol
     
  20. khana
    Offline

    khana Youngsta Beauty

    Jul 27, 2010
    186
    i would call imran as of one of the greatest captain of pakistan not the greatest. what about mushtaq mohammad. he draws with the australia 1-1 in australia twice and loses to west indies in west indies 2-1. won against newzeland and india 2-0 in pakistan. javed miandad, haroon rasheed, iqbal qasim were introduced under him. imran's initial good performances come under him. wasim raja's great fight back in west indies, majid's century before lunch, sarfraz 7-1, miandad's debut. etc. etc.
     
  21. Mercenary
    Offline

    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,711
    Can Dhoni extend his legacy further or will he be axed before long?
     
  22. Satyagraha
    Offline

    Satyagraha Youngsta Beauty

    May 11, 2012
    115
    Good manager, a genuine brave-heart unlike the false prophet Afridi but an over rated and at times careless leader.


    Personally i'd rate Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi as our greatest leader. Ganguly after that and then on an equal plane would be Gavaskar/Mankad/Dhoni/Kapil
     
  23. Passionate Pakistani
    Offline

    Passionate Pakistani Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,366
    I think he needs to give up on test captaincy by himself rather than sacked.

    In odis, he is definately one of the best in world.
    Satyagraha are you also obsessed with Afridi? I dont see there was any need of bringing Afridi in this? Afridi isnt even current captain, then why??
     
  24. Chishti
    Offline

    Chishti Formerly 'Winsome'

    Jan 27, 2012
    1,674
    Absolutely wrong. He is not Imran Khan.
     
  25. Invictus
    Offline

    Invictus Talented

    Feb 15, 2010
    1,236
    I like Dhoni. He is the most efficient manifestation of an "Indian Captain". As long as I have been watching cricket, captains of every country posses certain traits. Not every captain but most of them. English captains are usually rigid, conservative and static in the field, Australian captains are more dynamic and engaged, WI captains almost always look like they are in control, SL captains usually act smart, Pakistani captains wear their emotions on their face.
    Let me explain the term Indian Captain. Indian captains are usually very batting oriented they use their bowlers to defend and batsmen to attack. So their entire strategy is built around consistent bowlers. Bowlers that might not be great but produce consistent results. A guy you can bank on going for 2-80 in a game (Prasad), day in day out, instead of someone like Sreesant who would go for 0-100 in one game game and 5-40 in the next.
    Dhoni is very very intelligent in how he uses his resources considering his limitations. He manages that really well and he does not cater to his ego.
    Personally I like Ganguly better because he changed the status quo. Dhoni has produced the results though and you cant argue with that. I bet Dhoni would have made an amazing middle manager if he wasnt playing cricket.
     
  26. Mercenary
    Offline

    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

    Dec 17, 2009
    16,711
    Satyagraha

    Pataudi did a great job considering the position of the India team in his era, he did a lot to lift India up a tier and would be a good choice for number 3. I'd put Ganguly at 2 because he was the man who made India believe in itself and made the Indian players think they could win against anyone. But I'd still have Dhoni at 1 because he managed to unite a team full of guys like Sehwag, Yuvraj, etc who hated his guts and felt he didnt deserve the captaincy. Yet they played out of their skins for him.

    As for Kapil, are you serious? He's one of the poorest captains India had.

    Gavaskar was too whiney as captain. For example when he got what he considered a bad lbw decision against Lillee he instructed his batting partner to walk off with him and the match was only saved by the Indian management getting involved. Also the best captains always act in the interest of the team, I cant see Dhoni ever batting like Gavaskar did on his go slow in the 1975 World Cup.

    When you say Mankad, do you mean Vinoo Mankad? He only captained 6 Tests and didnt win one of them. Sure he drew a series against Pakistan but Pakistan were still Test cricket babies in 1955 and India should have won that series with ease. He's hardly had enough games as captain to put him in the same class as Dhoni, Kapil and Gavaskar.

    I'd accede to you that Dhoni built on Ganguly's legacy and benefited from it a great deal but that's not his fault.
     
  27. 1137moiz
    Offline

    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

    Jun 30, 2011
    5,826
    I actually thought Azharuddin, match fixing apart, was a great captain. But of course that's a huge aside

    Imho

    1) Pataudi
    2) Ganguly
    3) Dhoni
    4) Azharuddin
     
  28. Satyagraha
    Offline

    Satyagraha Youngsta Beauty

    May 11, 2012
    115
    Just couldn't think of any other pretender bro. Please don't take it personally.
     
  29. Satyagraha
    Offline

    Satyagraha Youngsta Beauty

    May 11, 2012
    115
    Azhar was fine within subcontinent. Outside he just couldn't inspire the troops hence our shambolic away record during 90s. He himself was half the batsman away.
    I'd agree with that list though.
     
  30. Satyagraha
    Offline

    Satyagraha Youngsta Beauty

    May 11, 2012
    115
    I meant Vijay Hazare actually, named Mankad by mistake.
     
  31. Strength Is Life
    Offline

    Strength Is Life Talented

    Jun 20, 2012
    1,099
    I would rank Saurav Ganguly ahead of M.S. Dhoni as India's best captain ever.

    As an Indian fan who has closely followed the fortunes of the Indian cricket team, personally I would like to divide the captaincy phase of Indian cricket into pre-Ganguly and post-Ganguly era in terms of attitude, style, image, demeanor, leadership, success overseas and motivation. Saurav Ganguly was not merely a successful captain, he was a true leader of men who stood by his team mates in their times of trials and tribulations. He changed the direction of Indian cricket team with my most favourite quality of his as a captain---"controlled aggression".

    It is very important to reflect on the circumstances under which Saurav Ganguly took the reins of the captaincy of the Indian cricket team-arguably the toughest international captaincy assignment. Around the year 2000, India as a cricket team was down in dumps with setbacks not only on the field but off the field too what with the match fixing scandal leaving a scathing puncture wound on the psyche of the Indian team and fans alike. Indian team even in more salubrious times is a tough team to captain what with players coming from various states, backgrounds, beliefs, languages etc,. A man of the stature of Sachin Tendulkar could not handle the job and stepped down from captaincy and Indian team was left beleaguered, rudderless, directionless and most importantly leaderless. There looked no salvation, no hope, no resurgence. Heroes emerge in darkest of times and Indian team needed a hero and a fighter as its captain. Cometh the hour, cometh the man and it was Saurav Ganguly who rose to the challenge.

    He made a quick impact in his very first ODI series as a captain leading India to a 3-2 win over South Africa and then piloting India to the finals of the first Champions Trophy held in Kenya with two hundreds. But his true litmus test was to arrive in the form of the rampaging Australians who steamrolled everybody ruthlessly in their path to establishing themselves as the most ruthless Test team of all time by winning a mind numbing 15 test matches in a row. Not a single international team looked capable of stopping this Australian juggernaut in its inevitable march to even more higher glory. 15 became 16 in Mumbai as India was mauled inside 3 days. It was the now historic Calcutta test match 2001- often rated as one of the best test matches ever for the sheer ebb and flow of that test- which showcased the most important trait of Ganguly ---total faith and confidence in his men. The man Saurav entrusted the job to---Harbhajan Singh weaved and conjured magic on the last day of the test and India became the first team to defeat that "invincible" Australian team. Ganguly and Co repeated the dose this time in the sultry heat of Chennai which resulted in a truly epic result of 2-1 test victory over the mighty Australians. And that was the series which stamped Ganguly's presence as a captain. India then led its march in the Natwest Trophy immortalized by Saurav's shirt ripping act in an act of revenge against Andrew Flintoff's original act in Mumbai earlier.

    India marched ahead under his stewardship into the finals of the 2003 world cup.

    He then lead India to India's finest crowning glory overseas--- a series victory both in tests and odi's against its eternal bugbear Pakistan. Later, Ganguly led India to the truly path breaking tour to Australia where India ended up just short of beating Australia in that test series which stood at 1-1. He set the tone to that test series with his magnificent century at the Gabba. He became the first international test captain to have brought back the series trophy from Australia (India then was the holder of the Border-Gavaskar trophy and by virtue of not losing that series in Australia, India returned back with that trophy).


    Overall his test record stood at a very impressive 21 wins against 13 losses, which included 11 overseas victories, the highest for a sub continent captain. His ODI captaincy record was also an illustrious 76 wins in 146 games.

    I would be doing a great disservice to Saurav's captaincy contribution to Indian cricket if I attempt to quantify it by statistics.

    • Under his captaincy he forged ODI cricket's most lethal opening combination with none other than his close friend and colleague Sachin Tendulkar. Together they formed a truly formidable obstacle to the bowling team and paved way for India's several huge scores and mammoth run chases. They established a world record for highest century partnerships in ODI cricket and a slew of 50 run partnerships. That was also the time when for the first time fans did not lose hope when Tendulkar got out. They always knew Saurav was still there and he would carry scoring at a high pace.
    • Saurav Ganguly's batting style did not change when he became the captain, if anything he notched a gear up and increased his strike rate especially in the ODI's.
    • He nurtured, strengthened confidence of players like Zaheer Khan, Yuvraj Singh, Harbhajan Singh, Virendar Sehwag. Seniors like Anil Kumble, Rahul Dravid and Sachin Tendulkar looked up to him as their leader.
    • He as a captain was instrumental in Indian team becoming one of the best chasers in ODI cricket after he evolved a strategy of chasing heavy scores considering the honest bowling options he had.
    • Under his captaincy India became the only team to have competed and prevailed over Australia at a time when they vanquished opponents for fun.
    • At a personal level, it was infinitely ecstatic as an Indian fan to see the Indian team as a team of fighters exemplified by the captain himself who believed in aggression and taking the bull by its horns.
    Overall, he was the captain who led by example. He was the one the team mates looked up to. His captaincy may have been abrasive but very effective. He instilled confidence in his young players and gave them the cushion of not being dropped from the team irrespective of their performances. The blueprint for India's current status was evolved under his captaincy.
    To end, one of the important markers of achievement as a captain is how your opponent perceives you and Steve Waugh his famous nemesis rated Ganguly as India's best captain. Of all the people Steve knew about what he was talking about vis-a-vis captaincy. It goes a long way to show Ganguly's reputation when one of his most respected peers and a highly successful captain holds him in such a high esteem.
    One should acknowledge the fact that Saurav received able support from other seniors and juniors who reaped benefit from his undying faith in them scripted India's success story both at home and abroad. But the seniors themselves let Saurav as their talismanic leader. India found a new meaning to the word confidence and Saurav's captaincy became the most important pillar in the post 2000 edifice of Indian cricket's success.
    MS Dhoni is truly a great servant of Indian cricket and achievements wise he certainly has more to show for than Saurav but without Saurav's trail blazing captaincy it is difficult to imagine MSD's heroics as a captain which served India so well with 2 World cup titles.
    Cheers.
     
  32. 1137moiz
    Offline

    1137moiz Tracer Bullet

    Jun 30, 2011
    5,826
    Strength Is Life I think Pataudi had a similar effect in the 60s, transformed India into a genuinely dangerous team at home and not bad away, in particular his spin quartet was masterful and the 60s were probably the last time in history when India had a better attack than Pakistan`
     
  33. Strength Is Life
    Offline

    Strength Is Life Talented

    Jun 20, 2012
    1,099
    Yes, I will agree with your assessment with a few minor riders. Pataudi cemented his place in the annals of Indian cricket by becoming the captain of India's first ever test series victory abroad (New Zealand) . But, I think you will agree, even then India was never considered as a heavy weight. His captaincy record was 9 wins to 19 losses.

    Also, one must not forget there were no ODI's at the time. I am not going to suggest ODI's are on par with test cricket but it is also a format of the game which requires serious cricketing skills and tests a captain's strategic nous. Of course, one cannot compare the number of test matches that Ganguly led the Indian team to what Pataudi led. But yes I would agree, in a way Pataudi showed the world that India too can compete well especially abroad.

    Also as a cricket viewer, one tends to more appreciate the players and their performances who one sees at that time. I only read about Pataudi but I actually saw Ganguly play, lead and transform the Indian team. So, it had a more palpable and a direct impact on me as a viewer and as an Indian fan. Also, as I had mentioned in my post Ganguly led an Indian side which consistently challenged Australia and actually beat them. Several players ranging from Matt Hayden, Justin Langer, Jason Gillespie and Adam Gilchrist etc., proclaimed that India especially under Ganguly was their toughest adversary in the last decade just going by the sheer number of test wins against them. That is something which will always remain as a crowning jewel in Saurav's achievements as a captain.

    Overall in his day Pataudi led India to believe in themselves that they could perform abroad, but Ganguly took that to a completely new level both at home and abroad.

    Cheers.
     
  34. s2k
    Offline

    s2k Tracer Bullet

    Mar 23, 2012
    5,587
    For me its still Saurav Ganguly.....
     

Share This Page