Mickey Arthur vs Waqar Younis tenure?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by abc_to_xyz, Jan 4, 2017.

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  1. abc_to_xyz

    abc_to_xyz Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 20, 2016
    Been wondering the input of Mickey Arthur for Pakistan team till now. We can't let it go with the excuse of he's new. He has been for 3-4 series, yet unable to produce any significant result (Draw against a dumb team is not significant). Moreover he's not able to correct Amir, Azam, Aslam etc. Amir look like a baby now when the same player was swinging it around under Waqar (Asia Cup). The most scary part is that we're not able to spot mistakes, let alone correcting them. Same mistakes are being done again and again.

    The only positive I could spot was that the batting order appears little confident at times. But mistakes are still there.

    What are your thoughts on this?
  2. Omar

    Omar Cricistan Moderator

    Jan 27, 2010
    Coaches won't make any difference until and unless the players show grit and determination in their practice that they want to change and more importantly mentally.

    They need to work on each and every aspect of their game and look to improve.

    Even if you bring in Wasim Akram or Michael Bevan as coaches even then it won't change much as the players are going to be the same making the same mistakes.

    Some of Arthur's choices have been a bit weird specially criticising Imran and Sohail on tour about their abilities and then having to play them as he had no other options and then changing his stance of having no problems with them playing.

    I think it's worth giving him a year and seeing how it goes as he came on board and his first task was the tour to England then the home Windies tour followed by NZ and now Aus.

    Give him a year and then we can have a better idea as to what has happened I think.
  3. Del

    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    I believe we're comparing apples with oranges. One is qualified HEAD coach vs. other is fitness training/bowling coach at best.

    Waqar had been given good 3-4 years as head coach. However, he wasn't as effective as many had thought/wished. There's no denying that he inducted young lads and his focus on fitness should be appreciated. However, he never ever had any tactical nous what so ever (not even in this playing days - used to be inept skipper). I never saw he lay down any kind of game plan under this watch. And when it comes to run chase, we always looked like headless chicken. Of course, he is potent in report writing skills when it comes to point out issue we face.

    On contrary, Arthur is at the helm since England tour (about 8 months), not to mention that Pakistan has faced the toughest away tours since then (I don't even want to image what would've happened had Waqar continued as head coach till now). Moreover, lets not forget that Mickey is on the road since he joined the team. Never had chance to see domestic players and never spend time with selectors to discuss vision for different format etc. But in spite of all this, I can see that he's taken decisions to change our brand of cricket. Also, Arthur should be given credit for promoting Azhar as opener.

    My biggest problems with Waqar is that.
    A: He totally failed developed a potent bowling attack.
    B: He was never able to spot talent. And all the TTF were recycled under this regime including Tanvir, Anwar, Rahat, Sami and Irfan whilst performing alternatives in domestic were ignored, and ironically he big supporter of investing in youngsters as per his last report. It's beyond me how on earth he couldn't see the need to develop a fast bowling AR, despite having Amir Yamin and Amad Butt who he could've groomed. So I don't understand where is the disconnect.

    And by the same token, Arthur is given Sami and Babar a consistent long run and not afraid of failure.

    Of course, coaches can't take full blame, pool of players and the captain are more important factors as well and its they who have to perform on the field.

    That said, I would give Authur a long run, because if others can have a leeway and he also deserves to have his time.

    @Don Quixote, @axl100mph

    What are your thoughts?
  4. axl100mph

    axl100mph Emerging Player

    Nov 23, 2016
    No comparison. Waqar was clueless in identifying cricketers and had no tactical nous.
    On the other hand, mickey is an actual coach. I am just waiting for him to get the opportunity to work without misbah in charge.
  5. ComradeVenom

    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
    Still need to judge Mickey. I think hes looking to revamp the side but will take time and he needs the selectors on board.

    Putting in Sharjeel was a bold move and shows he wants to play a more aggressive brand of cricket.

    His public criticisms of Sohail and Imran etc show he doesnt agree with the selectors sides.

    Give him some time to get his own guys in the side then lets judge him.

    I want to see a couple of years of Mickey Arthur and see what values he can instil in a side. This isnt his side yet. Its a side Waqar built that is used to playing in a way Waqar wanted.
  6. Del

    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    Thank you. Same!
  7. Markhor

    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
    Certainly every issue with a team cannot be pinned on a coach. The quality of players and the captain are more important factors. However a coach DOES HAVE a role in identifying and developing talent for the future, team selection and must have tactical nous. Waqar was unsuccessful on all fronts when one looks at the facts.

    People say the coach cannot resolve anything due to our poor domestic system. Yet Bob Woolmer had to deal with the same flawed domestic system yet was a successful coach who took us to #2 in the world because he had a great eye for talent and was a world renowned coach with experience of developing talent.

    Under Waqar's second tenure, our bowling in ODIs in terms of bowling average was the second worst in the world and that's including Associates. He recycled TTFs like Anwar Ali, Rahat Ali, Mohammad Sami and Mohammad Irfan whilst better performing alternative seamers in domestic were ignored.

    Arthur did in two Tests what Waqar should've done in his 4 out of 6 years as Pak coach and that is promote Azhar Ali to open. He's also tried grooming young batsman like Aslam and Azam when Waqar persisted with Hafeez and Masood in the top order despite their vulnerability against swing and seam. Aslam and Azam could've have been given all those Asia series in 2015 and have settled into the Test team by now.

    Waqar also showed no eye for talent. He rightly called for investment in youngsters in his 2015 report yet debuted 39 year old Rifatullah Mohmand. Waqar also debuted players like Bilal Asif and Iftikhar Ahmed who have no business at international level. Waqar calls for developing fast bowling ARs yet dropped Amir Yamin after one match where he performed well.

    Arthur must be given time to build a squad. This has been a baptism of fire with three tough overseas tours in his first year.
  8. Bilal123

    Bilal123 Tracer Bullet

    Dec 11, 2010
    Mickey is just starting his job. Anyone who is questioning him right now can be blamed for wanting instant fixes.
    So far I am happy with the signals he's sending.

    Spotting that Azhar and Asad are decent test bats he's encouraging them by saying positive things.

    He has spotted something in babar and is again willing to invest in him as a no 3. Newbies always complain about chances but babar can't complain as he's had loads of consecutive series now.

    He has praised Sharjeel for being a stroke maker so he's again tried to work with him and make him into a batsman for all formats.

    He's already identified 4 batsmen that he's happy taking forward. I think as a coach he's trying to build his own team, it will take time but at least his strategic choice of players seems good
  9. princejain191

    princejain191 Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 20, 2016
    All a coach can do is instill the belief in players that they belong and their natural game can work at this level too - not tinkering too much - which from Mickey's words in the press seems he is doing.

    Sarfaraz is playing like Sarfaraz does, same with Sami Aslan and someone like Misabh.

    Rest depends on the player himself, these are professionals and they should know how to play in a particular situation. This is international cricket, the coach won't hold a player's hand and carry him on the field.

    If there is something to blame, it is the players mental toughness and game awareness. Also are they putting in enough efforts outside the field on the fielding and fitness part? Not the coach.

    Sent from my 2014818 using Tapatalk
  10. MNA

    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    Lol Waqar was not a coach. ground ke das chakkar, chalees otthak, pachas baithak....and thats the coaching done. Thank you glorified PE teacher.
  11. Bilal123

    Bilal123 Tracer Bullet

    Dec 11, 2010
    Ridiculous statement today from Arthur. Saying that they won't get Warner and Smith out for 5 again. Why would a coach say this?

    Isn't it better to say shabash lets get them for 0 next time, I think we have their number etc. to encourage their bowlers to bowl with more confidence and follow this performance up with something better?

    Negative statements like these show he has no real faith in the bowling. If the coach thinks its a fluke then who is going to believe?
  12. Alchemy

    Alchemy Smooth Operator

    Oct 8, 2014
    Anyone would be better than Waqar who is a sham of a coach.

    Give Mickey at least one more year to judge him. It is not his fault that he inherited a team destroyed by Waqar and Misbah. Adding to the injury, during his tenure we mainly have had away tours.
  13. Shahzad.Firdous

    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
    Both are worst we have had!! I would prefer to see Inzamam as Coach as well as Chief Selector at the same time!! Maybe you can have Aamir Sohail as Chief Selector and Inzamam Coach!
  14. Energy

    Energy Cornered Tiger

    Apr 22, 2012
    So now we're looking at coaches being a messiah to lift the team. Small-minded players with ghatiya mentality is what is driving the Pakistan team today.

    Same old statement by Mickey yesterday that 'we went back to old-school cricket'. LOL. If you knew it then why did you do it?

    Some of the short and wide deliveries that Azhar blocked at the start of innings set the tone for the match.
  15. Patriot

    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
    if coaches were making such differences in the team then Pakistan would have won all the Test series they have played since last year. Its up to the players to perform. A coach can only guide and advise his players
  16. Alchemy

    Alchemy Smooth Operator

    Oct 8, 2014
    Yup, none better than inzi the revolutionary right? The same guy who dishes out the same squad for every series and chooses inferior players for the team and is trying his best to be the worst chief selector we ever had.

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