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Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Shahzad.Firdous, Dec 17, 2019.
Your rating is third class.
Well the decision is symbolic but they could have refrained from raising point 66 which have made this a controversial one.
I know the current judges seems to be very much influenced by the movies, seems like this peshawari judge is fond of gory movies. referencing corrupt people to italian mafia's is fine, but asking a dead body to be dragged and put to hang on streets for days is taking it a little too far. Also it does gives the vibes that it has been out over there to take on the personality or the institution it belongs to, or a revenge keeping in view mushy took on the judges.
From DG ISPR to politicians to judges to bureaucrats, it seems like everyone wants to be famous on the media.
Well it wasn't really needed but the actual para which is hurting the DG ISPR is Para 55 which states that every core commander who helped Musharraf in his cause is also a traitor and the government should pursue cases of treason on each one of them.
BTW, this case is another example of the extreme incompetence of this government. The government was the prosecutor through out the case and it could have taken back it's case anytime during the 1.5 years period..
And now when the case is complete, the same prosecution team i.e the government is crying on why the decision was given.. Lol. Level of incompetence is unprecedented.
It should hurt as if all the people involved should be included in the punishment then it must also include also the civil society who took his orders including the PCO judges etc? If a precedent is to be set then it should refrain everyone who bows down to a dictator.
As i said, the detailed decision makes it obvious that it is some kind of a revenge.
these matters are taken care by the army it is pretty much evident.
farogh naseem, firdaus ashiq are handpicked by the army
Sure. Take down everyone involved. What is stopping the government from persecuting them.
The judge clearly states that everyone involved must be held responsible but the onus lies on the government to persecute them.
So you are telling me that it was his fault that CIA, RAW and NDS used their proxies to spread unrest in Pakistan, really? Terrorism happened and still happens because of these filthy agencies, open your eyes for once.
Musharraf has been the biggest criminal in the history of Pakistan. He alone is responsible for so many crimes which were not only unjust but inhumane as well.
This is just the divine law working its course and there's much more to come if God wills.
Solely responsible for making Pakistan a slave of the US.
Found this video very interesting ...
Justice Waqar Seth has given a new life to Gen Pervaiz Musharraf among public! May Musharraf have good health! Justice Waqar deserves an award for giving a new life to Musharraf in the heart of Pakistani nation! Otherwise Musharraf mar jata aur log usko bhool jate!! Musharraf was a real legend in my opinion and still is!!
forget "commando". this is even more shocking
A university lecturer in Pakistan has been sentenced to death for blasphemy.
Junaid Hafeez, 33, was arrested in March 2013 and accused of posting derogatory comments about the Prophet Muhammad on social media.
Allegations of blasphemy are taken very seriously in Pakistan, and even an accusation is often enough to make someone a target for hardliners.
Mr Hafeez's first lawyer, Rashid Rehman, was shot dead in 2014 after agreeing to take on the case.
The lecturer has also spent years in solitary confinement, after repeated attacks by other prisoners.
What are Pakistan's blasphemy laws?
Pakistan 'blasphemy lawyer' murdered
Dozens arrested after Pakistan blasphemy riots
The sentence was delivered by a court in the Central Jail in Multan, where Mr Hafeez was being held.
Mr Hafeez had studied a Master's degree in the US on a Fulbright Scholarship, specialising in American literature, photography and theatre.
After returning to Pakistan he took up a lecturer position at Bahauddin Zakariya University (BZU) in Multan, where he worked until his arrest.
Another example of law and order breaking down. As a minority, Wish we'd never separated and were part of a secular India, instead of this mess tbh
Yup. As a 14% minority in India , muslims have their own civil code. have a religions based quota. Imagine the leverage if that number was more like 40%. Muslims would have ruled over the Hindus in the undivided subcontinent. Hindus have Mahomedali Jinnahbhai to thank in this regard.
unsurprising to see the most Pakistani hating poster and the greatest corruption supporting, lying traitor supporting supposedly Pakistani poster on CS both singing from the same hymn sheet.
it seems its true that you never find a cockroach alone.
@Del you might find this interesting:
from 28 mins. the details and hypocrisy of the case notwithstanding, (and even though for the CS munafiq, the courts were compromised when it came to Panama, but all of a sudden they are landmark all of a sudden) - the ramifications of this judgement may have far more serious reaching consequences than the personal vendetta of sharif.
Patricia is suffering from some kind of mental illness... hence her political and ethical gymnastics... shes probably got a host of personal problems. Poor girl probably comes on here for attention
India is burning atm since they passed this new law against Muslims, which is another step in the direction of hindutva ideology. Even Indians are admitting that two nations theory was indeed right, which is no brainer. However, in order to understand it, one needs atleast an active/functional brain-cell, which obviously you two (or many be one) are missing.
not sure how anyone promoting india and criticising pakistan can raise their heads at this point. whatever dysfunction occurs in pakistan, at least its not fascist. now pretty much the whole world is clear that modi is building in a netayahu plagiarised state of hate and division.
and its no surprise to see that PMLN lovers are on the same page as anti-muslim and anti-pakistan indians. they are the same.
We minorities have been oppressed in Pakistan since the start. Thanks to this CAB, I can go to India now and apply for nationality instead of returning to Pakistan
Sabir Shakir has been thought to be hit and miss like all Pakistani media pundits, in his predictions and scoops - but any opinions on this 15 min slot?
it all does seem very well contrived.
1) bullshit dharna accompanied by media cell exaggeration and deceit (as witnessed here on CS too)
2) sharif escapes using false medical reports. pretends that he has to go to Washington for medical work because he cant get it in London (absolute horse shit) - but obviously to try to strike a deal with America for his interests and against those of pakistan
3) dharna mysteriously immediately evaporates (as does the media cell)
4) bizarre only suo-moto notice taken of some unimportant legislative convention on COAS appointment that is meaningless
5) massive heavily documented corruption unearthed against SS (media cell still absent)
6) asymptotic increase in civil unrest in fascist india
7) forced through bizzaro short notice death sentence on Musharaf, accompanied by long judgement including anachronistic, illegal (according to international law) desecration of dead body recommended at a time when Pak has rebuilt international relations to the point that hundreds of millions of dollars are being repatriated (media cell suddenly re-appears unsurprisingly, after discrediting the courts on Panama, suddenly they are now amazing)
8) military coup narrowly avoided by superb diplomacy by IK
9) whole avalanche of bails awarded through regional courts to swathes of PMLN and PPP criminals, all under the radar because of above news items (again, media cell silent); and other dead end red herring headlines like the whole Saudi/Malaysa conference thing.
10) LOC violations by india in false flag operations, this time handily responded to without compassionate restraint.
11) of course FATF headlines start up again, and pakistan is deemed by the US as being imbalanced for minorities, vs india who is given a clean bill!!!!
there are clearly hands at work behind all of this, there are too many unexplained, totally irrational events that are taking place. on the one hand, the incumbent government does not have a clear majority, having to rely on crooked king maker coalition partners, and on the other, sharif is clearly lying, as is his whole family, and has already proven in the past that he has very happily handed over advantage to the Americans and indians in order to save his own skin. the natural reaction to the musharaf news would have been to as per court suggestion, open up cases against all aiders and abettors which would have landed a death sentence on a bunch of PMLN and PPP politicians too - and this is something only the incumbent government can do, but of course that isnt going to happen, because after decades of sharif and zaradri rules, the political class is so rotten across the board pretty much, they wont risk any more spotlight on themselves.
the media on the other hand, after being heavily paid by government money under sharif, are clearly stacked up against the PTI because they are acting for the people, not self interest, so they are compliant in the whole smoke and mirrors theatre of deceit and distraction.
thats what I think is going on: although I would not have given him credit to have been this smart, I think sharif is at play. id expect a quick attempt to get maryam out any time now. most likely its a combination of his high treason and modi's blood lust, and serendipitous coincident timing.
so what does everyone think is going on?
Wont make him this draconian but i do agree with you alot.
- took almost a singular decision to go ahead with kargil, without even informing the air force. it resulted in us loosing our soldiers.
- afghan war and american support for it was inevitable. but he went on to give air base to the americans. not only that gave them the authority to drone bomb our qabails for years.
- handed over our people to the americans.
- free hand to CIA in Pakistan.
- finally gave NRO to the sharifs.
- extra judicial killing of baloch leader bugti, which made him a martyr for no reason.
- took on judiciary for egoistic reasons.
- economy flourished thanks to american aid money
- tried to take us to a slightly liberal stance.
- people became rich due to property boom.
negatives are way more than the positives.
New life kya, jatay jatay zaleel kardiya.
history books will now remember the only army chief to be sentenced as traitor. i dont think you realize that. nobody will remember kitnay ganay banay thay uski judgement k baad.
Unity and secularism will be the motto of the government. We can't afford divisive polity in India.
If India is not secular, then India is not India at all.
Atal Bihari Vajpayee
I k Gujral also was a secularist..
and thats just the last 3 Indian pm's.
you can't disguise the fascism by muddying the water patricia.
Indeed General Pervaiz Musharraf was and is one of the best political leader ever in Pakistan history. As you can compare human basic needs which is bread, clothing & shelter, which was very cheap in Pervaiz Musharraf presidency but you can see now everything is touching the sky. Where should a poor one go? A very common question arises here that everything gets developed day by day and things get easy in other countries but here in Pakistan instead of progressing we are getting down day by day. Things are getting expensive and hard to live. This is very sad but true...!!
Having a better economy at the cost of selling your intelligence, sovereignty, army and citizens to the US is definitely not the best return possible for a country.
Heck, Musharraf handed over an ambassador of Afghanistan to the US on Peshawar Airbase. How low can one go.
Here's probably why he's having such a rotten end.
Nowhere in the world minorities are abused, oppressed and crushed like India, so dont try to be cute and play this "Pakistan minority card".
gujral was an idiot. Vajpayee was idoitic enough to trust pak. Regarding Manmohan singh, here is his versionfo secularism
Muslims must have first claim on resources: PM
“We will have to devise innovative plans to ensure that minorities, particularly the Muslim minority, are empowered to
share equitably the fruits of development. These must have the first claim on resources,” he said in his address at the 52nd meeting of the National Development Council here.
the world press are idiots, most of the indian premiers of the past are idiots etc etc but you're smart... makes sense.
about as much sense as modis imaginary degree.
World press would like India to continue to be a soft pliable state putting up with pak nonsense.
Gujral's incompetence is well documented, otherwise he would have been PM for longer then 11 months.
Vajpayee got Kargil war as a gift for trusting pak.
This bill is about putting east paks on notice: you are not welcome in India even if half your land goes under water.
blah blah blah, world press is bad and all premiers are idiots... yawn
Patricia thinks there is a global conspiracy against india... low on medication?
looks like these questions and the theory that this has all been a long game is gaining ground.
klasra goes after the same theory now with lots of very interesting tid bits:
cognitive dissonance.... most definitely. Nice to see you have at least correctly diagnosed yourself. Heres me thinking your mental illness prevented you from any semblance of introspection.
But i dont expect much fromnyou because you are still the derranged imbecile who thinks values are based on your citizenship. what kind of mentally ill fool thinks secular values are reserved only for Indian citizens.... oh wait
"Secularism is reserved for the citizens who come under the countries law not for illegal immigrants."
Worth listening to this video from 5:20 and onwards (illustrates how Waqar Ahmad Seth become part of special count and who appointed him) - @godzilla @Disco Lemonade
its interesting, but sadly not surprising. it is disappointing that the courts if corrupt, are behaving this way brazenly and without challenge from the legislature - in this regard the PTI has been sorely lacking I think. on the foreign office issues, its also puzzling as to why any of it is a surprise - it feels to me that the media and opposition are making a deal about it for distraction. a distraction for what remains ton be seen.
there has to be a biog deal made of 1) Nawaz's medical reports - where and what are they and have them cross reverenced by a trustworthy second opinion 2) why is shabaz still on bail given the new cases that came out a couple of weeks ago 3) how did Rana get out on bail if he had 15kg. if it was a set up and there is no video, ministers head's have to roll, if its a technicality in the law, that needs to be reported by the press, and if its a corrupt judiciary, there needs to be an appeal made to the supreme judicial council or whatever its called.
I dont like how these things are lingering, and seem to be being swept aside. whats the delay?
This is clearly looking like a case to neutralize the opposition.
Previously, there used to be coups.
Since Musharraf vs Iftikhar chaudary fiasco, it was decided there will be no coups going forward. External pressures were also involved.
The elections were always rigged, at some places by the politicians, at some places by the establishment, and the places that remain were later on bought by either the establishment or by the politicians.
They found Imran to be a perfect candidate to be the PM. Respected and famous internationally as well as internally. Eloquent and have the reach to build and push a narrative inside and outside. Nawaz was a tried and tested failure. Bilawal was not ready. Shehbaz is nothing without big bro. Imran was by far the best option.
Imran pushed the narrative of anti-corruption campaign and succeeded, it gave the establishment the perfect chance to catch the opposition by the balls. Remember NAB was established by Musharraf for the same purpose, accountability was never the goal.
It is clear the military and establishment have no affection for the constitution, they see it as a tool for the politicians to take a share of resources which they want to keep within their reach. The reason is that they feel it is necessary for the protection of Pakistan. Hence you see the reaction of ISPR on recent Musharraf verdict.
I dont know if I believe much of this, it seems to be speculation more than anything else.
the media pundits are saying there was very nearly a coup a few days ago, that was averted by Its negotiations. the breadth and depth of corruption that is emerging everywhere, including the BRT in Peshawar - so its a non-party issue - is so astounding, its clear that the civilian political class is largely incompetent, so there could very well be a solid argument to be made that military coups and influence are not power or resource grabs, but necessary because of the greed and filth of the civilian governments.
I do agree that there are external pressures - we've seen with the war on terror, and the constant massive indebtedness thanks to previous governments that this is both an economic and military reality. this is factual, and can be evidenced by multiple sources. its been probably the most successful endeavour from this government that they have been able to negotiate their way through it so far without the country imploding, not thanks to the sabotaging opposition.
I dont think the 'establishment' whoever they are, or the army selected IK, he naturally appealed to people's common sense of justice after it fell into the public fray just how corrupt Nawaz Sharif was. its not even that he was a superb candidate. its because in the land of the blind he is the one-eyed king. I think it was a public selection. Nawaz was toast after the Panama revelations, and Bilawal is gay (genuinely) and also an idiot - he will never be chosen as the international face of Pakistan.
on the rigging I agree, but there's enough evidence to suggest this last round was the cleanest. the rigging is always going to be on the margin in general now, particularly since everyone has a camera phone and the internet allows for immediate information dissemination - this is changing rigged democracy throughout the world. there will be some seats that will be able to be influenced by the military - but these will be independents and some few bought politicians. if it were so widespread, musharaf wouldnt be facing death, and Nawaz Sharif would still be in power. both those things prove that the current amount of rigging is nowhere near as influential as youre making out.
why would the establishment need to have Imran play an anti-corruption card to get the opposition 'by the balls'? and if they did, why is everyone out on bail and why is Musharraf about to be executed? they dont. the ISS has lots of blackmailing material on pretty much anyone they want, given the nature of asian men, many of them have been caught in honey traps in London, its common.
what I think is happening is that the movement was genuine. the PTI is still largely made up, however, of the political currency cultivated by the sharifs and zardaris, so although they are flying different colours, they are the same sharifdari crap, in terms of competence and morality. so they keep making mistakes. in addition to that, the country is in a critically vulnerable position, militarily because of modi and the US, and financially because of the debt, industry, trade gaps and unemployment - all of which will take years to fix. in fact, from an economics point of view (my strength), they have done an incredible job so far. I dont think it will be a straight line improvement from here, I think the current account benefit we have seen was due to several one off benefits, so I think things will continue to be very tough, as they would under any government EXCEPT a corrupt one, which would borrow even more to pay people and win favour - that additional debt would just have to be paid by the future bankruptcy it would necessitate.
and finally, in terms of current influence, the judiciary is clearly influenced. maryam's video of justice Malik shows not that his judgement was manipulated, but that they as a party and family have influenced and blackmailed judges. so there does seem to be a correlation between this fact, and the results we have seen lately.
nab may not have been an accountability tool (I disagree and think it was intended as that) when musharaf created, and certainly it was defunct for obvious reasons under the PPP and PMLN, but that doesnt mean to say that it is always a defunct organisation. its a state tool which can either be empowered and freed to operate, or stunted and switched off. thats all that happens. There's very little they cn do with a budget of 5mmUSD in fairness, and despite them being shit, with that budget and the sizes of the cases, its quite impressive.
whatever the history and reality of the principle actors, going forwards, the next few years will be critical for the long term future of the country.
economics - finally the rot has stopped and there is a genuine attempt at fixing the country. after decades of mis management, this was always going ton be very painful for the public, and was always going to take several years. as an example, its ten years of austerity in the UK that has been in place to fix the previous excesses leadings up to the Great Recession in 2008. macro economics, despite opposition and media punditry, take a long time to change. even if there is an establishment in place making decisions, they have a vested interest in ensuring this continues. if it reverts back to the previous over spend policy, the country will disintegrate. look at examples of greece, egypt, Turkey, and pretty much any of the South American states if you want to see the results of extreme vulnerability to external economic powers (see YouTube videos on the economic hit man). this is the most dangerous way of losing sovreignty, and is the easiest way of foreign countries to invade and control, since all it requires is a corrupt political head they can pay off (which is why the sharifs and zardaris have all their wealth abroad. in my world they would both have been executed, their crimes are far far worse for the country than Musharrafs). this is the number one risk to the future of pakistan.
military - there are more and more reports that india is becoming an Israeli project in their intended expansion of the brutal extermination of muslims. they are militarily far and away superior, and they are presenting a real risk. however, it seems that pakistan has the upper hand in strategy and intelligence, and military competency (as opposed to power). it makes it all the more treasonous that the ex CJP decided to take Suo Moto on some bullshit conventional appointment of the COAS - and that the opposition are now using that as leverage to bail their corrupt party leaders (apparently Khawaja Asif has already left the country now because he knows that NAB are about to come after him for example). There is no surprise that the opposition and the most murderous anti-pakistan Indian government in history are both very close allies. this is the second most urgent risk to Pakistan. if the establishment pull the strings, you can argue that it is critical for the country that they are not thwarted by a shit civilian government and corrupt judiciary, particularly when there is an overweight, hairy curry stinking wolf barking at the door. this isnt necessarily for power, its for the genuine survival of the country.
Corruption - this is the third most important risk and underpins all the other consideration. it seems that enough work has been done to demonstrate that there are genuine massive amounts of corruption that have taken place. the cost of this is not just monetary - billions removed from the country = loss of medical facilities for a poor, dying, suffering public, so is equivalent to murder. but in addition, in order to maintain corruption, these people need tout their people in key places in institutions, which damages the performance of those institutions, and instills a culture of bribery and underperformance throughout - this is the key reason that pakistan lags so far behind india and Bangladesh in terms of gdp per capita as an example. again the incentive here for a mysterious controlling establishment would be that without a clearing of the decks of corruption, and the genuine functioning of instituions, the first two risks above cannot be negotiated - so again, its not about power and greed, its about survival.
politics - finally, with the extraordinarily poor quality of political class available in pakistan, no government will be able to govern competently in my opinion. the only difference is that the head of this government cannot be bought by foreign powers like previous party leaders, and so as long as he is there, there is a chance that pakistan can survive, otherwise it will accelerate into the abyss that was entered into by sharif and zardari. again the mysterious establishment here might be seen as controlling political influence for the same of fixing the issues above and surviving, not because they are abbey bad monster.
whenever ive looked for data on the army controlling everything, its missing. even @Mars the most anti-Pakistani, anti-muslim, pro-indian, pro-corruption, anti-army Pakistani poster here has only been able to reference military inc (which of course he hasnt even read), which contains inflated guesses on the size of the military economy - its an insignificant proportion of the civilian economy. it just doesnt make sense that they are this massive resource consuming monster that people quote - none of the data supports this view. at best they are influential in the same way that any lobby group is, thats it.
its convenient of course to blame them, when you are looking at a government system that is riddled with corruption and is dysfunctional and requires wholesale change. when you finally get into the basement and start cleaning up all the shit, all the cockroaches and rats will runs around screaming - thats what is happening now.
I've just received and about to read Khosa's the faltering state, which will provide some more details on the alleged establishment, so will be keen to see if I can find facts to change my view.
Former Pakistan Army Chief and ex-president General (retired) Pervez Musharraf has got relief on Monday by the Lahore High Court in the death penalty verdict against him.
The Lahore High Court has declared the formation of a special court — which heard the treason case against Musharraf and handed him a death sentence after finding him guilty of treason — as ‘unconstitutional’. It means that the special court’s death verdict to hang Musharraf by neck will not be implemented and the case will be heard all over again if it is pursued at all.
The former president had challenged not only the conviction but also the formation of the special court that handed him the death penalty for high treason, as well as the complaint filed against him by the government of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif that resulted in the trial, Dawn news reported.
Musharraf was sentenced to death by a special court in Islamabad on December 17, 2019, six years after the trial started. The case was filed by the PML-N government against Musharraf for suspending the Constitution on November 3, 2007, when he imposed emergency in the country.
The 2nd best day in my life after Imran Khan becoming PM day!!
Even though we knew Musharraf wouldn't be hanged but even the judgment hurt the asses of the corrupt colleagues of his that they practically imposed a martial law to reverse the decision.
damage is already done.