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Muslim free zone in US

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Wistful Reminisces, Jul 23, 2015.

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  1. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

    Sep 21, 2012
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    In a YouTube video posted over the weekend, Andy Hallinan stands in front of a Confederate flag and declares his Florida gun range a “Muslim-free zone.” In doing so, Hallinan, who said his decision was inspired by the Chattanooga shootings, joins another American gun range owner with a similar policy.

    “I will not arm and train those who wish to do harm to my fellow patriots,” Hallinan says in the video explaining his new policy. He also says he will open his gun range, Florida Gun Supply, in Inverness, Fla.,to the public at no cost and offer free concealed carry classes. “Get armed, get trained and carry daily,” he tells his intended audience, whom he repeatedly refers to as “patriots.”

    “We are in battle, patriots,” Hallinan says, with enemies he defines as “Islamic extremism,” and what he characterizes as out-of-control “political correctness.”

    “If we can’t call evil evil,” Hallinan says, “then we can’t really defeat our enemies.”

    The video also makes repeated references to recent attention in the media — and by the U.S. government — to police-involved shootings.

    Hallinan is following in the footsteps of Jan Morgan, the owner of Gun Cave Shooting in Hot Springs, Ark. Morgan gained widespread attention for her policy barring Muslims from shooting there. Morgan told The Washington Post that she disagrees with those who say her policy violates the public accommodation provision of the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    Morgan said that because she runs her range as a private club with dues-paying members, she believes her decision to exclude Muslims is protected by a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives policy that gives range owners the discretion to turn away potential customers, who, the owners believe, pose a threat to the safety of others.

    In April, the Department of Justice said it was monitoring the range, but it has no plans to investigate Morgan’s business.

    The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has asked Justice to launch an investigation into Florida Gun Supply in the wake of Hallinan’s announcement.

    “These bigoted declarations are no different than the ‘whites only’ signs posted in businesses during a period of our nation’s history that we had hoped was over,” said CAIR National Communications Director Ibrahim Hooper.

    A spokesman for Justice said the department will review the request from CAIR when it is received.



    What if Saudi creates a Non-Muslim free zone? All the people living in US would protest, including so-called Muslims
     
  2. Don Corleone
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    Don Corleone Kaptaan

    Jul 20, 2012
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    Yes. Equating a gun range owner to an entire country lmao. Because that makes sense.

    Maybe you should worry more about Pakistan essentially becoming a non-muslim free zone among its local population with the level of persecution and extremism targetting them increasing every year. Afterall you live there, you could do more for them than us outsiders anyway.
     
  3. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    Is Pakistan in the title or in the OP?
     
  4. Don Corleone
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    Don Corleone Kaptaan

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    Forget that then. Refer to point #1

    How do you equate a gun range owner to an entire country?
     
  5. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    If under current laws, you can ban a religious minority from entering, the government has condoned it
     
  6. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    This reminds me of a few idiot Muslims in the UK who go around saying they are enforcing Shariah laws in some UK towns and cities. Does that mean all UK Muslims act like that?

    Idiots come in all colours and creeds.
     
  7. Donal Cozzie
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    Donal Cozzie Tracer Bullet

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca
     
  8. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    I take it you're trolling again. Saudi already do this. Non Christians can go the the Vatican, Non Jews can go to the wailing wall but non Muslims arent allowed in Makkah.

    This is Saudi...

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Donal Cozzie
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    Donal Cozzie Tracer Bullet

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    Above reads like something from apartheid SA/Israel or 1960's US, but because Christians and non Muslims get treated like second class citizens lets just act all quiet and hush it under the carpet eh WR?

    Sick of this world tbh. Half the "civil rights" campaigners these days dont give a damn about communities bar themselves. Suu Kyi hasnt done jack to help the Rohingyas in Burma, Arabs dont do jack to help their supposed brethren in Palestine, half the social justice warriors here wouldnt care a damn about minorities in Pakistan or pretty much every Muslim country but one nutjob ranch owner bans muslims or a muslim is told she cant be an abercrombie model because of the hijab? Outrage everywhere.

    Least racists are up front about their bias.

    People are people. If they are discriminated against act against it, dont parade for equal rights on the one hand and ignore it on the other.

    Then again this is a WR thread why am I even replying
     
  10. Feather
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    Feather Head Surfer

    Dec 19, 2009
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    When I saw this thread I was like I am going to least lose a billion brain cells.

    Finally some common sense has prevailed. It has nothing to do with Pakistan. How many Pakistanis or Muslims are going to gun ranges anyway? Marketing and catering to fellow idiots. Even Americans call these idiots...idiots.

    Look at how things are in Pakistan. We have idiots pop up and do calls for Jihad for fun. Ignore these things people!
     
  11. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    Imam Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaybah has recorded the following narration: “The delegation of Thaqif arrived to see the Prophet (peace and blessings upon him) while he was in the masjid in a canopy of his. It was said to him, ‘O Messenger of Allah, they are idolaters!’. The Prophet (peace and blessings upon him) responded saying, ‘Nothing causes the earth to become impure’.” (Muṣannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah)

    O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

    They're not allowed to enter the Kabah and the surrounding area, but they are allowed to enter the City. And Saudi do it just to ensure that no filth can defile the Kabah.

    See, the outrage present in the people even in this thread, but no one cares about a gun free zone in the US. Saudi doesn't make different entertainment and food spots for Muslims and non-Muslims, just an area is closed off for religious reasons. People are more than welcome to convert if they want to come to Makkah, who's stopping them? However, an entertainment area is different

    Allahu Alim
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  12. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    This is a new low even for you. Referring to non-Muslims as filth.

    Certain Muslims are just as likely to defile the Kaba as non-Muslims.
     
  13. Rhythm
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    Rhythm Cornered Tiger

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    Cricistan wouldn't be the same without Wistful.
     
  14. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    The Quran says they're unclean
     
  15. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    Quran says all non Muslims are unclean? Provide a quote please.
     
  16. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.

    It's in the same post, and it's the Ayah's explanation which I copied and posted
     
  17. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    Thanks. That's the verse I thought you were referring to. Did you read it or did you just post it?

    It refers to pagan and not all non-Muslims, it says 'after this year of theirs' so it is talking in very specific terms about one set of pagans. It goes on to tell Muslims not to fear poverty (ie boycotts or withdrawal of business) so this again concentrates the context to a specific group.

    This verse is in reference to the pagans who worshipped at the Ka'bah before Islam. They used to keep idols inside the Sacred Mosque. The pagans had threatened the Prophet and the Sahabah saying that if they weren't allowed to continue worshipping at the Sacred Mosque they wouldn't trade with the Muslims, etc.

    This verse refers only to those Makkan Pagans who worshipped at the Ka'bah and threatened to boycott the Muslims. The words are very clear. As far as I know those Pagans no longer exist, if they do they are in such small numbers that it matters to no-one. The restriction in verse 9:28 was in response to the Pagan Arabs having previously banned Muslims from entering the Holy Mosque. The following verses refer to that incident...

    The ban of the Arab Pagans was in response to the Arab Pagans having first banned Muslims from entering the Sacred Mosque. It was also a practical ban because you couldnt have both Monotheistic Muslims and Idol Worshipping Pagans using the same building for worship and so a restriction was more sensible.

    The ban was only in reference to the Sacred Mosque and not to Mecca as a whole, Madinah is not even mentioned. The ban on all non-Muslims entering the Hejaz is a recent thing not based on Quran or Hadith. Many Muslim jurists dispute the ban including Abu Hanifah and the Hanafi school.
     
  18. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    Absolutely agree. However, later on all Non-Muslims were banned
    It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
    Muslim, Book 019, Number 4366

    The ban was because of their rituals including running naked around the place and other stuff. Obviously such defilement could not be allowed of our Holy Place so they were banned. However, later, the Prophet (SAW) did want to ban all Non-Muslims as shown by the Hadith above
     
  19. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    Did you actually read this? According to this narration a delegation of Idolaters came into the mosque to see the Prophet. One of the Sahabah was shocked and pointed out that they were idolaters.

    The Prophet responded by saying nothing causes the Earth to become impure. So basically (according to this narration you supplied) the Prophet refuted the idea that having Idolaters in the mosque was a problem.
     
  20. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    Yes, I did. The reason they are not allowed, I have explained in my next post. Their rituals were the problem. Non-Muslims today would also have no reason to enter Makkah other than to, on purpose, try to disrupt Muslim lives by trying to do something near the area on purpose
     
  21. zkhan427
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    zkhan427 Smooth Operator

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    LOL so any non-muslim entering automatically is there just to cause a disruption? clearly this guy is trolling.
     
  22. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    Yes, why else would you enter it?

    It's no secret they want to defile it, as many people in the Sun and other respected publications have said.
     
  23. Saein
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    Saein Smooth Operator

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    As if any goes to these ranges here.
     
  24. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    You're getting the chronology wrong. Once Islam won if that was what the Prophet wanted then he could easily have expelled non Muslims but there was no expulsion of non-Muslims from anywhere.

    When the Prophet and the Sahabah took Makkah they didnt exile the Christians and the Jews, they didnt even exile the Pagan Arabs. All they did was place a restriction on the Pagan Arabs using the Sacred Mosque. There is no Hadith or Verse narrating that all non-Muslims were expelled from Makkah. Pagans, Christians, Jews, etc lived in Hejaz and were not evicted.

    That's an illogical assertion. If someone wanted to do damage they could quite easily get into Makkah undetected and leave undetected. It's less than an hours drive from Jeddah to Makkah with no checkpoints. A woman could wear an Abayah, a man could wear a thobe. Who would know?

    A person who wanted to do damage wouldn't want to access Makkah through the proper channels because that would leave an evidence trail. They would just do it via Jeddah. I have a friend who used to live in Jeddah and he said this sort of thing happens all the time especially at Hajj or Eid time because the number of pilgrims is so high that it's impossible to restrict the flow. Local Arabs take their non-Muslim friends in their cars and show them around, no-one questions them.

    Ahmeddiya's are banned from going to Makkah as well but I used to work with a couple who had been and who said many in their family had been too.

    It's a pointless restriction.
     
  25. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    The Hadith says he wanted non-Muslims out. You've quoted it and can read it


    It is hard because there are checkposts. Evil people have always had designs but the brave Saudi government have kept them at bay.

    Report those Ahmeddiya's, they have committed a crime and should face the punishment
     
  26. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    Only according to earthly Saudi laws. The Quran/Hadith only prohibits Pagan Arabs.

    There's a Hadith that says kill all dogs. According to Hadith men shouldnt wear red or yellow clothing. In practise the Sahabah didnt kill all dogs and even the Prophet wore red.

    Besides there are clear rules about the treatment and taxation of non Muslims living within Muslim lands which wouldnt be possible if they were all expelled.
     
  27. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    Do you drive above the speed limit? We should obey the rulers of the time. Report them and make sure they suffer for their crime. They should learn crime doesn't pay
    Sahih Muslim
    One of the Sahih Sitta
    Reliable Hadith

    See the difference....
     
  28. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    Rulers of the time cant overrule clear and unambiguous laws from within the Quran. The only way would be if the Saudi lawmakers were in receipt of Wahy? Is that what you believe?

    So you're saying the Sahabah didnt follow that Hadith? The only point you could be making here is that the Sahabah were wrong because they didnt follow a clear and authentic hadith that they themselves transmitted. Is that what you're saying?
     
  29. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    It is not overruling it. I hope the Saudi gets its act together and prevents Ahmedia from entering the Holy Land, and stop them from making a mockery of the law

    No, you twist words well though
     
  30. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    It's not twisting words, you're trying to twist words by not answering directly. I pointed out the Sahabah didnt expel all non-Muslims, you kept saying expulsion was required because of that Hadith. So either that Hadith is not a requirement as you originally claimed or the Sahabah were wrong for not following that Hadith.

    Which one do you believe?

    It is modifying a Quranic law. The Quran is clear. No Pagan Arabs in the scared mosque. You didnt answer the question, you always defend anything the Saudis do. You never criticise them once.

    The only way that would make sense is if you think the Saudis receive Wahy. If you believe the Saudis receive Wahy then for you they can even rewrite the Quran. Is that what you believe?
     
  31. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    That is twisting words in every sense of it

    I do not criticise this because they are right to stop Ahmadis. They have a false Prophet
     
  32. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    I am referring to the fact that I have never seen you criticise the Saudis or ever accept the possibility that they might be wrong in any action that they take. You always defend whatever they do.

    At first I thought you were trolling but now I think perhaps you believe they get Wahy. I know Pakistani Muslims who wont accept any criticism of any Arabs but especially Saudis. However even they accept the odd thing here and there.

    I've never seen you accept any fault. If you dont believe they are faultless then tell me 10 things the Saudis have done wrong.
     
  33. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    10 things? I'll have to think about that, can't think of that many at the moment. They could support Pakistan more over Kashmir
     
  34. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    By adding 'more' you disqualify that comment because you are asserting that they do it, so it's not a criticism just a hope they do more. I want to see real criticisms.
     
  35. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    They should be stricter on Ahmedis entering the Saudi. It's not good enough
     
  36. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    Again that's not a criticism as they have banned them. They cant do more than that. I could give you dozens of criticisms of Pakistan, UK, US, India, wherever.

    You yourself repeatedly make threads criticising Pakistan, the West, etc but here you are struggling to criticise the Saudis for anything at all. Are they faultless?
     
  37. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    No, they're not

    Saudis should attack Iran
     
  38. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    You still havent answered this.

    Again that's not a criticism, Saudi already work against Iran with everything at their disposal. They put pressure on the West to isolate Iran, they fund militant groups against Iran. All you're suggesting is they do more of that which isn't a criticism, it's a suggestion.

    Let me make it a bit easier for you. The examples should be of things the Saudis have done or are doing (not hypotheticals) which you consider to be wrong.

    I'm starting to think you're one of those who thinks that it's a sin to criticise Saudi. Are you?
     
  39. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

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    No, I'm not. Just because the Saudis haven't done a lot wrong doesn't mean it's a sin to criticise them
    All right, here's one, Saudis should let women drive

    Happy? ;)
     
  40. Mercenary
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    Mercenary The Lone Wolf

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    There you go, there's one. I didnt realise how difficult it was for you to come up with 1 thing let alone 10 things. Hopefully your next reply will have the other 9. It's hardly that difficult.
     

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