Pakistan's inability to clean the tail...

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Del, May 16, 2018 at 4:53 PM.

  1. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Apart from other issues, another pressing concern to me is that why our bowlers always struggle to clean the tail.

    Even in the game against IRE, specially in 1st innings, we brutally struggle to wipe the tail.

    Due to this reason, we have seen opposition recovers from 180ish to 300+. And this could inflict some serious damage against ENG.

    In your opinion, that's the cause and how to rectify it? Or its just that our bowlers don't possess required skills?
     
  2. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 8, 2017
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    It has nothing to do with the lack of skills and EVERYTHING to do with the mentality.
    We relax when opposition is 6 or 7 down, thinking that they are OUT as well.
    More often than not, it comes to bite us in the bottom.

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  3. Munna
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    Munna Moderator-e-Aala

    Oct 4, 2014
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    Our former bowlers were lethal against the tail... they used to attack those stumps and bodies

    These days, our bowlers are mostly trying to maintain the discipline of that outside off channel.
     
  4. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Hmmm some what agree but it, but I reckon we don't have good enough bowlers to keep on taking wickets once the ball gets older, specially if there is no assistance from the pitch. Of course Yasir's absence isn't helping either, but even in his presence, its an ongoing issue.

    Pace is vital regardless of the format. Its makes a significant difference a bowler swings bowl in mid 130s vs. (142-146). For instance, when Amir went to END in 2010 then he was he was swinging the bowl at sheer pace (140-145) whereas 2 years ago he was getting the same swing but in the low to mid 130s and bowling less closer to the stumps. On the other hand, Abbas and Pace doesn't come in the same sentence. He can do a little bit with seam, but solely rely on line and length and bowl on a particular channel.

    Beside pace, what's completely missing in our bowlers is

    A) Lack aggression
    B) Passion
    C) Intensity.

    I don't see our bowlers pumped and try to intimidate opposition. If you notice in the CT final, Amir bowled with so much passion, intensity and aggression, which I dont see in Test. Because in Test, he looks a completely different bowler who bowls at usual defensive, back of the length rubbish. I don't know whether its guilt or if he's been told to be more passive by PCB and management since his return from the ban but he needs to be allowed to express himself. Fast bowling, aggression and personality go hand in hand,

    I'm not in anyway shape or form saying Amir should be excused, it's about finding ways for him to improve.

    Apart from ineptness of our bowler, how will you hide the elephant in the room, 'drop catches'. We dont have Wasim, Waqar and Akhtar anymore, I believe thats another reason it hurt us more. Because dropping catches isnt new, but the said bowlers use to take wickets on their own. The thing about dropped catches is that not only does it cost a bowler a wicket, but it can shift momentum and rob the bowler/attack of possible extra wickets. It's impossible to know, but it's absurd to suggest that if the fielders took Amir's or Abbas's catches [they seem to be the best side at catching as the other thread demonstrated], more wickets wouldn't have followed.

    If Pakistan can hold catches, then it will help a lot, specially in upcoming Test series.
     
  5. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

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  6. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Talented

    Jul 17, 2017
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    I think Azhar is dropping catches on Amir’s bowling on Purpose, when he dropped Kohli it spoilt the occasion completely even though he got out straight afterwards.
     
  7. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 8, 2017
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    Dont even get me started on drop catches, Wasim and Waqar must have at least 50 odd easy catches dropped on their bowling.
    Even today, our fielding is only marginally better than that.

    Hassan has all three attributes you mentioned.
    Aamir seem to lack the first two.
    Abbas the first.

    All in all, you make some very good points.
    About pace, if it is like wahab, ie missdirected, than it does more harm than good.
    Waqar learned to control his pace just after a couple of years.
    Wahab has been in and out for the last 8 years.
     
  8. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Hmm its a profound statement man, I don't know honestly.

    Curious to know, is it your gut feeling or you've observed something (like some pattern or something)?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018 at 4:44 AM
  9. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Yes, Hassan I believe tick all checkboxes but Amir isnt. And I believe its intentional, because just look at Amir in T20 game, but pace goes up, passion and intensity also becomes high. So to me, he doesnt give his 100% in Test.

    As for Abbass, like as I said pace isnt his thing. He can do his own thing, therefore, he depends on conditions to be successful.

    I reckon we need tall and young bowlers in Test like Shaheen.
     
  10. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 8, 2017
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    That does look...........plausible.
    I mean, the guy did cheated at the ripe old age of 18.

    What's that Urdu saying?

    پوت کے پاؤں پالنے میں پہچانے جاتے ہیں.

    Abbas can be ours McGrath or Bhuvi. He doesn't need to be express, only ACCURATE, because we desperately need someone who can stop the runs from one end.

    Shaheen is TOO young. He needs to be kept away from tests for at least two years.
    Remember what happened to Gul when we thrusted him into tests too soon?
    He lost quite a lot of his early pace because of that injury.
    You don't want a repeat of that now, do you?

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  11. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Whispering Death

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  12. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Emerging Player

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    This is all down to negative tactics first brought in by inzi and perfected to a tee by Misbah. We can’t turn that around overnight can we?
     
  13. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Emerging Player

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    Shaheen is not too young. If you are developed enough to bowl in excess of 140k, you’re old enough.

    We need to stop this negativity and get guys in. I would also try that other quickie from the u19 wc, forgot his name.
     
  14. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Emerging Player

    Sep 1, 2010
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    I do think there is a difference in approach from Amir when it comes to tests, but I don’t think the pace reduction is evidence of it. Most bowlers bowl much quicker in t20s than tests for this simple reason that they’ve got only 4 overs and most likely each spell is only a couple of overs.

    I think Amir is thinking too much and trying to do different things in different situations. In 2009/10 all he wanted to do was just bowl, and that’s what he should do - stop thinking and bowl, bowl, bowl
     
  15. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Its perhaps your own assessment, because Amir certainly not pushing himself enough, even Azhar has complained about it too. I understand, you can't bowl all day 140+, but there is not justification of bowling in mid 130 from the get go.

    I was watching some highlighted of 2010 tour and what I observed is that, the main difference between 2010 and 2016 bowling performances in England is that in the former he was swinging the bowl at sheer pace (140-145), even in middle overs, whereas 2 years ago he was getting the same swing but in the low to mid 130s and bowling less closer to the stumps.

    Another aspect what I can think of, why he has been holding himself, is because we have been playing with only 4 regular bowlers. However, things have changed now, with inclusion of Faheem. Also I want Harry to role his arm so that we can keep pacers fresh. All this means is less number of overs for Amir, Hassan, Rahat and Abbas but then I want to see aggression and intensity in their bowling, specially in Amir's. Amir and Hassan must be used in short bursts of 4/5 overs.
     
  16. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

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    Well Wasim Akram did his debut when he was 19, Waqar did when he was 18, so I am sorry but I dont buy this notion of "he's too young". Actually this about time to groom him, so that he can serve for at least 8/9 years if not more.
     
  17. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 8, 2017
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    Please realize that the "rules of engagement" for extremely tall players ESPECIALLY fast bowlers are completely different (or they should be).

    Him being "not ready" has NOTHING to do with his age.
    If he was between 5'10 and 6'2, i would have been the first to include him in any potential team.
    I am talking about his height, his build, he is what? 6'6 right now.
    His body is still growing, if It's put under consistent pressure of test cricket, i am afraid it might break.
    Like Gul's did, and he was some three four inches shorter than Shaheen.

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  18. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

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    Nobody is asking to throw him at the deep end and make him play all he Test matches. Also, he plays First class cricket for KRL, so its not like something completely new for him.

    We play limited Test already, so perhaps giving him 2/3 Test an year wouldn't hurt.

    Also this way his learning wouldn't pause, because I am not sure how much he can learn from Domestic.
     
  19. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 8, 2017
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    That is actually not a bad idea.
    We play what? 9 odd tests a year.
    You play him in three, one in home conditions, two in foreign.
    Should be enough learning experience for him.
    Do this for two years. Than increase his load.

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  20. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Whispering Death

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    Shaheen Afridi is refreshing to say the least! I think we should let him play with freedom without thinking about injuries. Trick is not to overburden him like we are doing with Amir presently playing him in all formats. Amir and Shaheen should stick to test cricket. Likes of Hassan and Junaid and Shinwari can look after shorter formats. We may throw Shinwari in test cricket too./ There were some exciting finds in PSL like Umaid Asif. Lot of young bowlers want to bowl like Mohd Asif and Mohd Amir.
     
  21. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

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    Indeed, thats the idea to give him a feel for TEST, because he played first class anyways.

    Actually this is how we should develop young pacers, who are tall, and this kid has all the qualities.

    Along with him, I wouldn't mind trying his KRL partner Ahmed Bashir and his U19 partner Muhammad Musa.
     
  22. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

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    Umaid Asif is not young.
     
  23. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 8, 2017
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    That's just the thing, WE SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT INJURIES.

    You are thinking upside down.
    First, play him in limited overs games. Let him get international experience, meanwhile, play him an occasional test here and there, than increase his load.

    God, i hope they don't consider both of them as role models in life.

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  24. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Whispering Death

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    I said exciting find not young!
     
  25. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Whispering Death

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    they were a disgrace but they were skillful!!
     
  26. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

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    Never said they weren't.

    That's why i said "in life".

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  27. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

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    Exactly.

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  28. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Whispering Death

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    Sometimes trick is not to overcomplicate things. Let him bowl cus he is bowling well but use him like a horse not donkey!

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  29. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Youngsta Beauty

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    Nice analogy, but who is gonna make our selectors adhere to it?

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  30. Del
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    Del Smooth Operator

    Dec 21, 2016
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    I reckon its not just Inzy, Mickey is equally involved in selection. That's why Shaheen was part of the Test camp.
     

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