Pakistan's relationship with Israel

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Del, Sep 1, 2019.

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  1. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    Arab counties are getting very close to state of Israel and I heard many soon will going to accept Israel as Jewish state.

    In these given circumstances, this narrative building has started in Pakistan, that if Arabs have no issues with Israel than Pakistan should also accept it.

    On this topic, checkout the following tweet of a Pakistan journalist.



    That said, should Pakistan accept Israel and have good relationships with it?

    Discuss !!!
     
  2. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,210
    No. Because of two reasons

    1. It will means injustice of highest level with Palestine and agreeing/admitting something legally and morally illegal.

    2. Even if we become selfish and do it for our own selves, they will bite us back sooner rather than later. They can and will never be our friends, once they achieve their aim of being accepted as a Jew state, they will bite us back and then we will start crying again.

    All these arab coubtries getting closer to Israel are in for a harsh lesson in future.. these ppl never learn. Youre only valued only untile youre of use.

    Just look at what happened to Husni Mubarak, Moamar Qaddafi, Saddam and Osama.

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  3. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,611
    Don't worry. The Israeli PM already visited Pakistan months ago. We're already in contacts with the devil, you don't need to make good excuses for it.

    Ps. All this talk of recognizing Israel makes me wonder whether the Yahoodi Agent tag is spot on.
     
  4. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,611
    An Israeli newspaper talking about Pakistan recognizing it. How apt.

    https://www.haaretz.com/amp/world-n...ze-israel-1.7773360?__twitter_impression=true

    Opinion Is Pakistan Preparing to Recognize Israel?
    Prime Minister Imran Khan and his military backers are giving unprecedented freedom to a highly-censored media to talk about establishing relations with Israel. 14 years to the day since the countries' only public bilateral meeting, are conditions now ripe for a formal move?

    Kunwar Khuldune Shahid
    01.09.2019 | 12:21
    When Kamran Khan, a veteran Pakistan journalist and editor-in-chief of one of its most influential media groups, asked on Twitter: "Why can’t we openly debate pros cons of opening direct and overt channels of communication with the State of Israel?" he triggered thousands of responses – and not all of them were florid denunciations.



    It’s a clear sign that the once-taboo subject of Islamabad probing potential relations with Israel has undegone a sea change - and is now entering mainstream discourse. The subject has been trending on Pakistani Twitter, and commentators have queried whether Imran Khan’s government itself is encouraging this debate – perhaps as a trial balloon before it considers any further steps.





    Clearly, any such moves would encounter substantial grassroots opposition – as one critic of any normalization with Israel put it, "Pakistan is here to undo the project of Israel, not to award it legitimacy through recognition. [Modi’s] Hindutwa Zionists are the attack dogs but their real handlers sit in Tel Aviv" - but Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, beneficiary of the all-powerful military’s backing, may not consider that a deal-breaker.

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    >> Pakistan and Israel: Separated at birth? ■ 'Kashmir Is Palestine': Why both India and Pakistan want to push this ominous comparison ■ Plague of flies infests Karachi: ‘The city stinks, it’s hard to breathe’


    Despite decades of intense hostility to any notion of recognizing the Jewish state, that opposition itself can be seen as counter-factual. Religious national movements led by secular founders; post-World War II countries partitioned within the British mandate in a hostile neighborhood; security states reliant on the U.S. support for survival – that’s the general theme of the frequently underlined commonalities between Pakistan and Israel, which have seen them being dubbed the "Muslim Zion" and the "Little Jewish Pakistan" respectively.

    Even so, among those who have deemed preposterous the idea of any comparison between the only two religious nation-states in the world, were the founders of Pakistan.

    Two months after successfully founding a nation-state based on Muslim nationalism, Pakistan’s first foreign minister Zafarullah Khan vehemently opposed the idea of one based on Jewish nationalism in the United Nations General Assembly session in October 1947.


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    His argument was that unlike Pakistan, a Jewish state in Palestine would be an "artificial" result of "immigration," conveniently ignoring that the Indian Partition resulted in the largest mass migration in human history.


    Meanwhile, while Zafarullah Khan, an Ahmadi Muslim, was leading the Islamic bloc against Israel at the UN, Pakistan was initiating its Islamization through the 1949 Objectives Resolution, which eventually resulted in the state excommunicating the Ahmadis. The Ahmadiyya community is now often touted as "Israeli agents," traitors, on the basis of the sect’s theological differences over Islam.

    In contrast, following Israel’s declaration of independence, its first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion sent a telegram to the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, in a bid to establish diplomatic relations. There was no reply.

    Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who saw himself as sole spokesman of India's Muslims, denounced British policy in Palestine, advising Arab parties behind the scenes. Announcing Pakistan's creation, June 3, 1947 Wikimedia
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    Pakistan and paradox have gone hand-in-glove since the state’s inception. And Islamabad’s continued position on Israel is not immune to its bizarre contradictions.


    For instance, on either side of the state losing its eastern wing and one half of its population following a heavy military defeat against India in 1971, which resulted in the creation of Bangladesh, the Pakistan Air Force was covertly involved in the Arab-Israeli wars of 1967 and 1973 - a conflict in which it had no geopolitical stake.

    In the 70s, Pakistan was led by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who according to his close aides had a "fanatical hatred" for Israel, but at the same time did not "conceal his dislike for Arabs." At a time when Arab nationalism in general, and Palestinian nationalism in particular, was largely secular, Bhutto sifted the foreign policy of post-1971 Pakistan through the Islamist sieve, to counter India's influence in South Asia and the Middle East.

    While Muslim nationalist movements in Kashmir and Palestine would be usurped by radical Islam in the 1980s, with the backing of the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, perhaps the greatest oddball was thrown by Islamist dictator Zia-ul-Haq, when he asked the Palestinian Liberation Organization to recognize Israel in March 1986.

    The 1980s underlined the extremes of Pakistan’s paradoxical position on Israel. Where Pakistanis were volunteering in significant numbers to join the PLO, most notably during the siege of Beirut in 1982, the country’s spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, was working in tandem with the Mossad in CIA-led operations in Afghanistan.

    It was in the 1990s, after the Oslo Accords, that the question over Pakistani recognition of Israel first began entering the mainstream. While there was the Islamist inertia against any such move – ostensibly in solidarity with Palestine – it gradually became evident that even supporting the Palestinians would require some engagement with Israelis, too.

    The incident that illustrates this came in August 1994, when the then Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto wouldn’t visit Gaza - because that visit would have required coordination with Israel, part of their agreement with the Palestinians.

    While several unofficial diplomatic exchanges have taken place between Pakistani and Israeli officials over the decades, including the reported meetings of then-Israeli president Ezer Weizman with his counterpart Rafiq Tarar (in Ankara in 1988) and with then-Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto (Johannesburg, 1994), it has always been evident in Pakistan that only a military ruler could make a public move on Israel. For the Islamist pressure groups that have aggressively resisted any talk on Israel are largely controlled by the Pakistani army.

    Pakistani Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri shakes hands with Israeli FM Silvan Shalom. Istanbul, Turkey. Sept. 1, 2005. It remains the only publicly acknowledged talks between the two states AP
    That moment came 14 years ago to the day, when the Pakistani and Israeli foreign ministers held their first ever publically acknowledged meeting on September 1, 2005 in Ankara – over five decades after the creation of the two states. At the time, even Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas welcomed the talks between Pakistan and Israel.

    The then-military dictator General Pervez Musharraf had been setting the ground for that meeting after opening the debate on relations with Israel in Paris in 2003. Over the past couple of decades he has continued to urge Pakistan to establish relations with Israel, a position he reiterated as recently as this year.

    In a 2012 Haaretz interview, Musharraf explained the basic pragmatism behind his view: "Right from the beginning…we have been pro-Palestine. But I believe in realism and in assessing ground realities...A lot has happened since '48, and one has to adjust…Policies should not remain constant. Israel is a fait accompli. A lot of the Muslim world have understood that and I know many Muslim countries have relations with Israel, whether above board or covertly…Pakistan also needs to keep readjusting its diplomatic stand toward Israel based on the mere fact that it exists and is not going away."

    While the past decade and a half since that meeting in Ankara, the interactions between Israel and Pakistan have largely been limited to counterterror intelligence and arms deals, there has been an energetically renewed debate in Islamabad over recognizing Israel over the past 12 months.

    >> Did Israel's PM Netanyahu Secretly Visit Islamabad? How One Tweet Sparked Hysteria and a Political Crisis in Pakistan

    A tweet last October by Haaretz English editor Avi Scharf sparked rumors of Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu secretly visiting Islamabad. In February this year, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told the Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv that Pakistan wants "normal ties" with Israel.

    Even so, the debate has skyrocketed over the past couple of weeks, with leading journalists like Kamran Khan and Asma Shirazi endorsing formulation of diplomatic ties with Israel.

    What has prompted this reaction in certain quarters is the Arab world’s refusal to openly back Pakistan’s position on Kashmir amidst the ongoing crisis with India, as exemplified by the UAE following other Arab states in giving Indian PM Narendra Modi its highest civilian award.

    Pakistani demonstrators hold an effigy of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi as they march during an anti-India protest rally in Lahore on August 30, 2019 AFP
    While the award had been announced in April, the timing of the move - at a time when there are fears of the Modi-led Hindu nationalist Indian government increasing its persecution of Muslims - has, for many, has broken the mirage of global Muslim unity.

    >> Hitler’s Hindus: The Rise and Rise of India’s Nazi-loving Nationalists

    In February this year, when India was engaged in aerial warfare with Pakistan, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation had also invited New Delhi as the "guest of honor" at its Abu Dhabi meeting.

    Pakistani Foreign Minister Qureshi, is effectively laying the ground for a potential move on Israel, when he noted that UAE's decision is based on the Gulf state's own assessment of its national interest. He even said "international relations are above religious sentiments."

    Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohamed bin Zayed al-Nahyan meets Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi before bestowing on him the UAE's highest civilian honor. Abu Dhabi, August 24, 2019 AFP
    Another senior minister, Fawad Chaudhry, recently tweeted in Urdu that "certain sections in Pakistan are more worried about Iran and Arabs. Narendra Modi’s relations with these states should provide a lesson to such people that nothing is bigger than your own nation. Your own borders are sacred, not the (Muslim) Ummah…"

    The argument – even if still voiced by a significant minority – goes: if the Arab states, including Palestine, are actually enhancing their relations with India despite its violations in Kashmir, what possible obligation does Pakistan have to not even acknowledge Israel? If Gulf Arab states are cosying up to Israel, despite its behavior towards the Palestinians, why should Pakistan, alone, keep waving the boycott flag?

    Indeed, it is no coincidence that such a debate has popped up on mainstream Pakistani media in the immediate aftermath of Imran Khan’s meeting with Donald Trump, and growing Saudi ties with Israel.

    Pakistani leaders from Benazir Bhutto to Pervez Musharraf have maintained in the past that any move Islamabad makes on Israel would need to be in coordination with the Arab states. Furthermore, almost the entirety of Pakistan’s backdoor dealings with Israel have been owing to Islamabad’s subservience to the U.S.

    Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi (L) and military spokesman Maj Genreal Asif Ghafoor (R) address a press conference at the foreign ministry in Islamabad on August 17, 2019 AFP
    With Pakistan reaffirming its status as Saudi Arabia’s newest client state during Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s visit to Islamabad in February, and the U.S. using the financial bailout carrot to push Pakistan into complying with Washington’s interests in the region, the conditions required to make a formal move on Israel are there.

    Given the criticism in Pakistan over the state’s inaction over India's annexation of Kashmir, the government can actually sell its recognition of Israel as a bid to "counter India." In journalist Kamran Khan’s words, "High time Pakistan counter nefarious Indian designs with bold foreign policy moves."

    With Imran Khan being the army’s Chosen One, he is guaranteed protection against domestic backlash by the military, which would hope to benefit from formal defense ties with Israel.

    Imran Khan and his Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) ruling party are bound to pay some domestic political price for tentative normalization, especially owing to the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that have engulfed him since his first marriage to Jemima Goldsmith. But if the lack of outrage against the state’s nonchalant inaction over Kashmir is anything to go by, it is unlikely that there would be large-scale anti-Israel parades and demonstrations.

    Supporters of religious and political party Jamaat-e-Islami hold signs decalring 'Death to Israel' at a rally against U.S. President Donald Trump's Jerusalem decision. Karachi, Pakistan, December 17, 2017
    Supporters of religious and political party Jamaat-e-Islami hold signs declaring 'Death to Israel' at a rally against U.S. President Trump's Jerusalem decision. Karachi, Pakistan, December 17, 2019 REUTERS/Akhtar Soomro
    Former president Musharraf’s positive statements about ties with Israel clearly echo the views of Pakistan's corridors of power, perhaps the most salient indicator that Islamabad's ruling class are encouraging this talk is that it’s the leaders of the PTI, a party completely reliant on the military for support, who are engaging in such a sensitive subject.

    And there's another powerfully telling sign that the spike in discussion of this issue has backing from the top. The same Pakistani media discussing in unprecedentedly positive terms the possibility of relations with Israel faces state censorship that has never been more stringent, under whose conditions it can’t cover even the slightest dissent against the ruling establishment.

    Although tentative steps towards ties with Israel will likely have to wait till Saudi Arabia formalizes relations with Israel, given how that particular relationship is developing so swiftly, coupled with Washington and Riyadh pushing for the isolation of Iran, it seems clear that the next formal meeting between Pakistan and Israel won’t take another five decades.

    Kunwar Khuldune Shahid is a Pakistan-based journalist and a correspondent at The Diplomat. His work has been published in The Guardian, The Independent, Foreign Policy, Courrier International, New Statesman, The Telegraph , MIT Review, and Arab News among other publications. Twitter: @khuldune
     
  5. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
    25,418
    we should recognize Israel because

    A- Arab countries don't give a shit about us

    B- Palestine people don't give a shit about us

    Its time we become selfish pricks and show the arabs the mirror
     
  6. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,246
    UAE, Jordan, Egypt, all have embassies in Israel and share counselor facilities. Saudi is also a silent Israel ally and their respective rulers have even met up already.
    The Arabs don't give a shit about us or Kashmir, and here we are obsessed with protecting Palestine's rights at our own expense.
     
  7. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,611
    So we basically want to become the Eastern version of Egypt and Lebanon and Saudia Arab?
     
  8. Mycroft Holmes
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    Mycroft Holmes Talented

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,617
    Netanyahu is just as repulsive as modi. Maybe if we were talking about a centrist govt it'd be doable.
     
  9. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

    Dec 17, 2009
    5,739
    i do not agree with above.

    we stand with palestine. doesnt matter what the world do.
    and if people believe recognizing israel would get us anywhere, it wont. dont live in a dream land.
    we dont matter in that region. we just need to stand with palestine.
     
  10. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
    25,418
    i know

    but it will piss of the GCC countries, isn't that worth it ?
     
  11. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,210
    Agree with this.

    We dont get anything out of it other than humiliation and once they are recognised they will teach a lesson to al arab countries.

    They dont learn their lesson, do they ?

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  12. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

    Dec 17, 2009
    5,739
    can we afford that? dont we give military security to them in return for the help.
     
  13. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,210
    But izaman got news from israel that we have already recognised them and their pm also visited islamabad

    @fawadchaudhry: All bullshit whats the difference in Modi and NetanYahu? They are Two sides of the same coin, why would you take trolls or Maulana Fazal Ur Rehman so seriously ? No Q of Ties with Israel

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  14. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
    25,418
    then its even more for a better cause
    we finally getting rid of GCC aids. we dont need them
     
  15. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,210
    Man you live in some other world
    We would have become defaulter if it wasnt for their latest aid/help

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  16. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    The poster you mentioned is the biggest hypocrite on this forum.

    Never said a work on Kashmir and now here too, using Israel's source to support his irrational argument.

    His biggest issue is with Pakistan and whichever leader, party, individual will support Pakistan, he will disagree with this views. He is biased to core that many dont even bother to read his useless posts (myself included).
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  17. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,210
    I used to have lots of respect for him despite him being a passionate supporter of fazlurehman but lately he has lost the plot with having the same narrative as pmln using words like jews agent and blah blah

    Besides he will write essays about this govt has failed economically but mum over why we are in such a shit state ? Guy has lost it completely therefore i dont even bother replying to him.

    Issue with such people is that their aim is not Pakistan but their respective leaders. I love IK alot but eventally it comes down to my country.. if he fails to perform in 5 years and we are still at same position or worse after 5 years then he can also tuck off.

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  18. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    And thats why I said he's biggest hypocrite on this forum.

    I reckon his issue isnt leader, his issue is state. Any anti state person/leader, he'll support him. Therefore, his rational is one is puppet if he supports his establishment, however, if you dont than you're a leader.

    In a nutshell, its all about Ahmadis issues.
     
  19. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,611
    A lot of smell here. Guys, why don't you ignore me if I don't make sense. It looks like I'm hitting some really sensitive areas which is why you have to gossip about me in third person.

    And I really don't mind about my reputation. As long as I stand by the truth, I do not care.
     
  20. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,611
    Also, I'm really interested in knowing the definition of State and Government.

    What exactly does it mean when you call someone anti state?
     
  21. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    I have said this to you and will try one more time. If you address me than TAG me or else I wouldnt even know that you're asking me something.

    Secondly, there is no smell, its a bitter truth, which I have dished out to you multiple times. You had similar discussion with @godzilla and its because of posters like, he doesnt even bother to post much. Because there is too much haterade and propaganda, in spite of the fact that you were proven wrong so many times, however, you continued to clutching at straws - carry on, nobody has time to waste on hypocrite like you.

    More to the point, you still have nerves to say and post thread in favor of Nawaz after he has been exposed to the whole world. And you expect people to respect you. @Passionate Pakistani is 1000% right.

    Just look at your avatar, which says "FREE PALESTINE", however, did you even bothered to say a word about Kashmir ? No, even a kid like @Mohammed Bilal was slapping Mohan left right and centre.

    As for "anti state", dont become so naive that you dont know about it. Your posts have been well documented here on CS, therefore, I am not going to waste time on it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  22. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
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    Once again, you are not replying to the question I asked. Differentiate between the two? What exactly is a state? What is a government? What makes me anti state?


    And as far as your other rants are concerned, this is a public forum, deal with it. It's not like PTI users have never done what I'm doing. I'm just exposing the Naya Pakistan.
    And Kashmir? Why should I argue with an Indian when my own army and government is not willing to fight for human rights. Wars are not won by social media. Dialogue only occurs when the other person is has a common base with you. Hindus and RSS do not have anything common with us and they're not likely to change as long as they are under their own media. Once we take over Dehli, we can try to change their minds.
     
  23. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    What exactly is a state?

    State is the one which makes big decision and not governments. For instance, its state of Pakistan which declared Ahmadi's are not Muslims. This is because Pakistan's constitution is revised following the Islamic principles. Thats why Pakistan was announced as Islamic Republic of Pakistan.


    What makes me anti state?
    You views, which are always anti state and in favor of goons like Nawaz. Oh wait a minute, let me guess, I reckons its because Nawaz and PMLN tried to sneak in an amendment to the clause of Khateme Nabuwat in the constitutions (also, you can guess now who stopped it from happening, even though it was PMLN's Gov - STATE). Of course this would never happen it PTI is at the helm, therefore, bash them as much possible and your hate it totally natural.


    Exposing PTI, lol sure by all means. All those who are jumping guns should wait till next 5 years. Than cry river, nobody will say a word to you.

    More to the point, why dont you say a word about damage you beloved Nawaz & and his family has done to the Pakistan? When will you start exposing damage than inflicted? I need to know an ETA on this - tell me when?

    And as for Kashmir, what you said is totally wrong. PTI and Khan has take Kashmir to every forum and exposed India as much as they can. BTW: this is again the same lines which PMLN supports use in media. So, not surprise to hear it from you. Khan has highlighted Kashmir in few weeks, which Nawaz, Zardari and Fazlu coudn't do in past many years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  24. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,611
    So the state isn't a person? Or is it the army? Or is it the establishment? What exactly are you trying to say. Never read a definition more vague than this.
     
  25. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    You can assume whatever you like (not sure whats the fuss about it), be it a person, a group, army, ex army personal, ISI and or ex ISI folk, they wouldnt do what you want, which is change Pakistan's constitution and declare Ahmadi's are Muslims.

    And as usual, when I raised other questions you very conveniently ignore those, nice.
     
  26. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
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    You think I want to change constitution to Ahmadis becoming Muslims? Inna lillah WA inna ilaehi Rajioun.
    You have no idea about me.



    (as far as other questions are concerned, I've stated my opinion countless times. PTI is just saving face doing nothing but hogwash. No air space closed, consular access given, kartarpur being opened yet you want me to believe they're raising voices. Even the PTI staunch supporters have gotten anti foreign minister in the past weeks yet you consider raising voices to be our victory)
     
  27. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
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    So the state is an institution which is governing Pakistan but we can't see it nor point at it nor define it?
     
  28. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,210
    Dg ispr in his press conference today said that ignore all the rumors and propagandas.. i repeat propagandas of recognising israel and that we will never recognise them as a country.

    But their pm visited islamabad and its already decided no wonder IK was called a jew agent.

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  29. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

    Nov 25, 2018
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    link?
     
  30. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
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  31. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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  32. Mars
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    Mars Talented

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,611
    There were no official comments on this for days. The timing was also very apt and the silence from government officials just made it even more likely because such a plane was there for 2hrs or so on the airport and just went back.
     
  33. Mycroft Holmes
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    Mycroft Holmes Talented

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,617
    Not dicey, but bullshit. Netanyahu wouldn't just turn up in a clandestine meeting.
    When have Israel and Palestine collaborated?
     
  34. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    Not you, but all Ahmadis wants it. This is a very common narrative which Ahmadi's have and I know many of them (outside of online forums). So dont every try to be cute on this.

    As for air space, yes, they should close it - I second you on this.

    However, as for consular access granted to kulbhushan are you really that dumb? Dont you know that it was decided by ICJ - there, you hate and propaganda has been exposed once again.

    And as for Kartarpur initiative, it was decided and agreed upon before Modi created Kashmir's mess. Sikh community (from India and globally) supporting Kashmir's and Pakistan's narrative. So why it should be abandoned - give me one good reason.
     
  35. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,152
    Clutching at straws - thats what you are doing now.

    What you think who initiated Pakistan's nuclear program? Who started CPEC? Go figure ! it wasnt your beloved Nawaz.
     
  36. isaacking
    Online

    isaacking Talented

    Jul 16, 2010
    2,274
    Keep your friends close and enemies closure.

    Even Prophet(saws) had treaties with Jews and yes jew did back stab muslims but do remember,

    They plan and plot but Allah is best of the planner.

    No stab will enter my back till Allah commands it's too.

    It is preferable to be Man of Understanding then to be a Man of Knowledge.
     
  37. zeenix
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    zeenix Administrator

    Dec 17, 2009
    5,471
    Why shouldn't we? Its all politics what dispute do we have with Israel. We already have their "EX" son in law as our PM. Why not just go ahead and have full diplomatic relations. It used to be that Saud's didn't like Israel and thus we followed suit. Its not the case anymore.
     
  38. Mycroft Holmes
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    Mycroft Holmes Talented

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,617
    You're right in one sense but this is a vile and repulsive apartheid regime. IF there was no Palestine but the Arabs in the occupied territory had the right to vote, free movement etc I'd happily accept Israel.
    We can't have diplomatic relationships with countries where even the centrists running for PM boast about bombing Palestine back to the stone ages... Or where people are subjected to demagogues that see ethnic cleansing as par for the course.
     
  39. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

    Apr 26, 2011
    63,385
    Not at all.

    We should never ever accept Israel even if we are the last country in the World to have not accepted them. This is not about economy or Geo political situation. This is about Justice and religion. They had occupied the First Qibla of Islam by force and we will accept it just like that? And if we are accepting Israel then why are we crying over Kashmir?

    @MNA sorry you are wrong. UAE has no embassy in Israel and they don't accept it.
     
  40. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,246
    @MNA sorry you are wrong. UAE has no embassy in Israel and they don't accept it.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for pointing this out. Yes not embassy but non-officially both have been developing cordial relationship for last 20 years, to such extent that UAE bought software from Israeli cyber company NSO, according to Melman, which enables the state to spy on the mobiles of its citizens.
     

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