PMLN/PPP performance

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by godzilla, Sep 20, 2017.

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  1. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    To me apart from corruption this is their second biggest sin - no investment in human development. Pakistan lags far behind in this aspect compare to India and BD. Without a much faster rate of development in educational, skill and literacy levels, future growth will be severely constrained.
     
  2. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    this is why its so serious.

    corruption is not only a direct financial drain, but it requires rewarding sub standard, unqualified people in roles of massive responsibility - those in turn result in massive scaled underinvestment, and a multiple-fold negative economic effect too.

    heres an example. after the gulf war, when Saddam said he would set the straits of hormuz on fire, he set alight some crude on the water. now crude oil doesnt really burn, so quite expectedly, it just left a mess. this was scooped up by various marine vessels designed to clean up spills and resulted in a tanker full of terribly contaminated oil.

    the tanker spent a year on the ocean trying to sell it on, they went everywhere from South America, Africa, any tinpot country anywhere hoping to offload it. where did it end up? Pakistan. Benazir bought it for a $7mm kick back and forced WAPDA to use it. They did, and it caused $400mm of damage to their facilities.

    The only reason the army has allegedly had so much influence is because the sitting governments have been so utterly incompetent that they have demonstrated that they have been unable to govern if left to their own devices

    In addition, if the influence from the army is the independents, if there were a strong government, there wouldn't be as many independents - so even their influence is a direct result of weak and corrupt governments.
     
  3. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    That is why utterly incompetent Punjab govt has out played highly competent KPK government. It’s time to wake up now.
     
  4. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    we've been through this a million times. the Punjab government has the backing of the federal government. theyve been in power for decades. what kind of mentality thinks this is an apples to apples comparison, and even then the one quantifiable metric was one study a year ago where KPK only just came second.

    what about fog, water and electricity? how has your utterly competent Punjab government, with its massive budget, decades long "political stability", federal backing and support - done there??

    as usual, I would expect no answer from nawaz sharifs biggest fan/not really, am impartial playing devils advocate.
     
  5. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    There is lot of room for improvement for both the parties however both parties did lot better than PPP in Sindh but I will not condemn them completely but if I want to criticise PML-N then I will also have to criticise PTI for they didn’t do any better despite of tall claims.
     
  6. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    in iho' world:

    political claim (which all parties do) >>>>>>>> corruption/decades in power/federal support.

    perhaps you should re-look at the definition of "unbiased".

    and of course, no mention of fog, water, electricity in the Punjab. as usual. logic isnt really a strong point for you, but then it isnt for all of the PMLN supporters of corruption and stolen wealth.
     
  7. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    Sorry can you write anything other than corruption. It sounds like a parrot ratta. Half of the people with stolen wealth have already joined PTI or about to join them
     
  8. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    In which universe ?
     
  9. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    I can understand how that word hurts you every time you read it. but im not about to bury my head in the sand or a pile of stolen notes from the poor im afraid. feel free to skip the truth and not comment if that suits you better.
     
  10. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    If I am not mistaken then earlier Nawaz was also kept foreign policy in his hands, but everybody knows how he handled affairs, specially in UN regarding Kashmir, India and kulbhushan and his case ICJ. Therefore, naturally someone has to take the control if sitting Gov doesn't function as it should.
     
  11. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    In neutral surveys and analyst opinion
     
  12. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    Why would it hurt me? Grow up and focus on issues and not on your fellow poster. You cannot win your debate by getting personal
     
  13. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    oh please, take your own hypocritical medicine.

    just because you can't answer simple questions and are defeated at every ridiculous attempt at defending your Quaid of thievery, doesnt mean you should use these forums to cry.

    by the way, in your "unbiased world" how come you didn't mention that Punjab has 3x the total budget of KPK? 1970 bn vs 603 bn? is that something you are unaware of in your "unbiased" world? or have you deliberately decided to omit that crucial detail?

    its yet another question that exposes your agenda and childish arguments, so not holding my breath for an answer - for the billionth time.
     
  14. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    Doesn’t Punjab also have 3x population than that of KPK? The reason you are getting so cranky and aggressive is because what I’m saying is resonating and it’s just that you don’t want to accept it
     
  15. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    its resonating in your empty skull, nowhere else my friend, which is where your crankiness first emerged too. youve been debunked constantly throughout the boards, even using your own links.

    you dont like the word corruption, you dont like to talk of the massive national level corruption beyond a magical five years ago which has taken the country to the brink of bankruptcy and led to massive inflation for the poor, you dont like to talk of the multiple cases for corruption within the last five years already in the courts, you dont like to talk of the mass failings of the current administration, you dont like to talk about the smog, water and electricity promises that have been broken, but hypocritically choose to judge the kpk government by that measure, you dont like to talk of the swathes of imprisoned, defecting, disqualified members of the current administration, you dont like to talk about how the ridiculous paper on west Africa of all places that you pinned your whole argument about political stability on defined a stable state as being one that pakistan is, and itself prioritised corruption as the greatest contributor to the lack of progress.

    but you do want to talk about one study from 2017 comparing the performance of one region with the full backing of the federal government, and in power for decades, with the first term performance of a government of a province at the forefront of the fight against extremism.

    not sure that argument is resonating anywhere other than in the toilet where it was conceived. you have absolutely nothing at all of value to contribute to the discussion, other than a relentless persistence of the same myopic emptiness, mixed in with a bot of ad hominem hypocrisy.
     
  16. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    You don’t need an essay to convey your point. Please give up now it’s getting boring.
     
  17. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    The reason you are getting so cranky and aggressive is because what I’m saying is resonating and it’s just that you don’t want to accept it
     
  18. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    Chal Bhai tu Khush reh
     
  19. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    And whats the authenticity of those surveys?
     
  20. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    PILDAT survey 2017 is quite authentic. Again 2018 is due soon and it’s possible that KPK might edge ahead in that one after which all PTI supporters might start believing in it. One more point on the question of who did better than the other - this is not something we need to argue about and it’s okay to disagree. After all we are only trying to analyze the future election outcome based on that. There is no medal to be won here.
     
  21. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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  22. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    For you only.
     
  23. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
    4,313
    Ok
     
  24. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    excellent programme delineating in detail why there is no foreign investment in pakistan - not because of the bs excuses of political stability - of which theres no evidence - or the dharnas - of which there is no evidence - its all GOVERNANCE.

    they give explicit examples and details of manipulation and inefficiencies in PIA, the sugar industry and so on.

    this government and the previous ones have mismanaged the economy to such a massive degree its in a critical condition.

    http://videos.92newshd.tv/videogall...st-100-days-plan-of-pti-20-may-2018-92newshd/

    if PTI wins, I know ill be investing in pakistan for sure.
     
  25. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    After PILDAT, this is another survey that further substantiates the same point.
     
  26. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,084
    So PILDAT another survey proves your point that Punjab performing better than KPK? What are you thoughts about employment rate, which is high very high, shifting of textile industry from Faisalabad to Bangladesh, more than 80% of illegal immigrants from Pakistan to Europe are from Punjab.

    Punjab is better than KPK because its building metros? The easiest way to do corruption? Pulling money out of education and healthcare budgets to spend on Metro buses when your literacy rate is just 60% well below the world average of 88%.

    [​IMG]


    Punjab has the highest percentage of out of school kids in entire Pakistan. It also has the highest ratio of private to government schools, which means 80% of the education is now provided by private schools due to collapse of government education system.

    Its farce that your last survey talked about human development, without knowing what exactly it means.

    There are areas in Punjab, more than 60% of total Punjab where literacy rate is less than 50% with Rajun Pur lowest with only 32% literacy rate. And Sharif Family ruled the province for more than 2 decades.

    Here is the survey that says KPK is doing better than all other provinces

    [​IMG]

    In 2016, KPK spent 27% of the total budget on Education.

    In 2016, Punjab spent only 18% of their budget on Education.

    Health Care is even worst in Punjab.

    [​IMG]

    Now, next question.. If they are not spending much on Health and Education than where the money is going?

    CORRUPTION… Metro Buses that are paid by the taxes of people from all 4 provinces. When someone in Lahore or Rawalpindi travels on Metro Bus, he pays 20 pkr for the ticket that actually costs 180 pkr..

    The rest 160 PKR is paid by the rest of Pakistanis to facilitate travel of people in Lahore and Rawalpindi in Metro Buses. THIS IS PATHETIC.


    KPK is the only province where crime rate is decreasing.

    [​IMG]

    Education is getting better.

    [​IMG]

    Also, inline are surveys done in Pakistan but in another universe, which doesn't agree with you.

    https://www.dawn.com/herald/survey/

    https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/23493/has-imran-khan-brought-about-any-tabdeeli-in-k-p/
     
  27. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    Did you even read UNDP report? Punjab even outperformed KPK in human development including education. Again no one is saying all is good in Punjab but it is also a fact that Shabaz out performed Khattak during past 5 years
     
  28. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    Herald survey is from 2014 :)
     
  29. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,084
    Acha tu? Things are totally upside down since then?
     
  30. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
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    Who said that ? but unfortunate for you things are comparatively better in Punjab
     
  31. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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  32. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Denial mode is still on, like as I said before, there is not cure of delusion.

    This are comparatively better in Punjab, based on your that list of unknown, unseen projects.
     
  33. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
    4,313
    Buddy you are actually delusional. Policy of criticizing the opposition may have worked for PTI in 2013 however in 2018 they will have to answer to the independent report cards on their province of governance. This election will be about performance and whoever has worked for the people and performed should get votes.
     
  34. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    he isnt delusional.

    in 2018 they dont have to answer simply to apples to pears comparisons of performance - they are first time local government. nobody with a shred of intelligence would compare them to a two decade incumbent local government with the backing of the federal government.

    what this election will be about is those who have taken the country to bankruptcy and have had half their cabinet disqualified for breaking the law. who have stolen from the poor and built palaces abroad with the proceeds. have destroyed the future of the country by bleeding it of resources and destroying healthcare and education. those are the people who shouldn't get votes.

    lets see what happens.
     
  35. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,084
    Would you care to share this independent report cards on their province of governance?
     
  36. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Shared again here. checkout the following from (from 10:33 and onwards)

     
  37. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    12,084
  38. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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  39. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

    Aug 7, 2010
    4,313
    All this bankruptcy and outside palaces, corruption talk is good for convincing the more gullible aam janta who you can get fooled with 90 days and 100 days plan. 10 years of criticizing the incumbents and now the excuse is that we only had 5 years, really. We need to talk specifics to be involved in educated discussion. Now just watch this news conference where Dr Miftah is answering on the 100 days plan and how it can double the existing debt. So how a country close to bankruptcy will pay for this.

     
  40. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
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    im afraid these people dont have any credibility - a party with an absconded finance minister, governing a term where debt has ballooned and where the country is now essentially enslaved to the Chinese. what would they know, they created all that debt in the first place. ahson iqbal has lied barefaced tonnes of times already on the economy, and here he is talking out GDP again.

    he is talking about turning around the economy successfully whilst Moodys has underpinned the debt only because of chinas rating, and inflation is killing the people. bare faced liar. Pakistan as one of the top 25 economies???? are you kidding? its JUNK RATED by the international ratings agencies!!!

    hes lying about the busses too - the Peshawar one will be profitable, the orange bus is not funded and federally subsidised. how is that an achievement to compare it to?

    the dr taks of all the spend and none of the revenue generation, and the third dude is talking about tried and tested methods of tax amnesties!!??? seriously??? tried and tested??? and he says you cant bring back looted wealth and it doesnt happen anywhere. LIES. the whole of the western worlds last ten tyears fiscal policy has precisely been about repatriating unpaid tax and forceably repatriating it, global banking regulations has changes specifically for this!!! hes trying to persuade us we should punish corruption! unbelievable. hes talking about successful poverty alleviation where this government has completely failed in that regard, no mention of inflation and devaluation. no one can take this seriously.

    im sorry from what I can understand of this press release, its atrocious. this is a muppet show.

    absolutely terrible rebuttal of the proposed guidelines from the PTI.

    secondarily, please explain to me why you do not see a difference between five years as a first term as a provincial government and 20 years of incumbent government backed by the federal government. whenever that fact is quoted, you seem to view it as an excuse. why do you think there should be no difference here?



    anyway, more shame and hypocrisy and fraud and corruption by the ruling party:

    http://videos.92newshd.tv/videogall...l-assembly-rauf-klasara-22-may-2018-92newshd/

    watch the first 15 mins for the fraud in the hoses of parliament, MNAs lying about attendance at parliament, this is the culture of governance, and the ruling party are talking about respecting the vote. more commentary if necessary as I listen to more...!
     

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