Prime Minister Imran Khan and PTI government - Performance watch thread

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Munna, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. Mycroft Holmes
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    Mycroft Holmes Talented

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    Objectively looking at this, who in PML would stand up to the army? What would make them more resilient to the army?
     
  2. Mars
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    Mars Talented

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    Maryam.
     
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  3. Mycroft Holmes
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    So how exactly did she earn her stripes? Did she earn her way to the top or did she get there by vitrue of her nepotism?
     
  4. Mars
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    Doesn't matter. She grew up as a daughter who hadn't seen her dads and establishment relationship and now when the establishment basically threw NS to the gutters, shes hell bent on taking revenge in the language establishment understands.

    All of this only helps Pakistan.
     
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  5. Mycroft Holmes
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    Politicians who steal from the public coffers deserve to be chucked to the curb.
    You can't talk about anti corruption and on the other hand put forward a woman that is the poster child for nepotism and dynasty building.
     
  6. Mars
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    Once we eliminate the establishment, only then can we properly become democratic. Right now, these 'dynasties' are perfect for establishment to keep making deals. In reality, it is always the establishment doing the governance or atleast meddling in a lot of affairs.
     
  7. Mars
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    Corruption of politicians only helps establishment grow stronger and they make them do it so they can use it to their advantage. You should read Qudratullah Shahabs Shahbnama to understand how Pakistani politics work.
     
  8. Mycroft Holmes
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    So you saying corruption is an acceptable part of Pakistani politics? That it's an unfortunate side effect of pakistani politics?
     
  9. godzilla
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    I have every right to judge you since we're the ones propping up your body country whilst you lot screw it up constantly.

    the person who grabs 2/3rd of the countries vote of the establishment DOESNT meddle? hahahhahahhahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahah

    where did you pull that out of? thats hilarious. what about the independent international reviewers who said that this last elections cleaner than the last? a man who cant even speak in public he is so stupid, is what the 2/3rd of the people want? bullshit.
     
  10. godzilla
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    total utter rubbish. under your qaid 's leadership, three times in fact, the establishment has grown stronger according to you - so why would he be the man to change anything?

    all of your claims about the army are without any proof. you make assumptions about their corruption, pull numbers out of the air, and totally ignore the billions of proven corruption by the pmln. you support a woman who has been convicted and is a convict, is corrupt and has embezzled the awam 's money in order to - rid the country of corruption. she's a liar and she's corrupt. she canto stop lying, and yet you think she is the saviour that will lead pakistan to a clean future, with some weird unsubstantiated religious belief that uninterrupted democracy is the one thing that the country is missing preventing progress? prove it. what about the fact that your chosen party has led the country into bankruptcy as the charts I posted clearly show? no comment? didnt think so.

    this is the depths of hypocrisy and idiocy.

    it really isnt worth responding to this mindless, dishonest, deceitful propaganda trolling - I dont know how you can look yourself in the mirror, its disgusting.
     
  11. Mars
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    Mars Talented

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    I would suggest you to read 1984 by George Orwell.

    For proof about army read Military Inc. By Ayesha Siddiqa if you want a start.
     
  12. Mars
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    I have made it clear time and time again that NS has recently gotten anti establishment and I have never been his supporter but the stance he took recently has been anti establishment (khalai makhlooq etc) and hence, my support for him.

    It's more about being anti establishment than being pro NS although in my timeline, NS has had the best team to lead the country thus far.
     
  13. godzilla
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    "if you want a start"? the same story - one single book written by a half baked academic - thats it. nothing else from anywhere else, except made up stories from interviews where the proof lies 'if you can read between the lines'.

    Ayesha Siddiqa even lives in the UK - two posts ago you were saying no one abroad has a right to speak on Pakistani matters, and now youre quoting someone who lives abroad. how are you not embarrassed by your own extreme hypocrisy??

    on top of that, she talks in her book - which is the only source of information that anti-army people ever quote - of the military business being worth UP TO £10bn - 6bn of which is the value of land, so not even operating business asset value. the pakistan GDP that the civilian government is in charge of annually is USD 305bn (2017). and yet the army is the massive problem and youre ready to give a free pass to the civilian governments in jail for their corruption, and economic embezzlement????

    yet again, lies and bullshit and false misleading sources and non existent evidence - hallmarks of your posts. there is no possible explanation for support of the PMLN over PTI other than economic self interest.



    talking of establishment stooges - nothing like hearing the truth from the horses mouth:

    "LAHORE: In a slip of tongue, Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) Spokesperson Marriyum Auranzeb called her own party supremo, Nawaz Sharif, ‘incompetent’ and ‘selected’, ARY News reported on Friday.

    The charged PML-N leader, in her media talk in Lahore, today, mistakenly said ‘incompetent’ and ‘selected’ prime minister Nawaz Sharif is incarcerated in Kot Lakhpat Jail today.

    Soon after, realising her mistake, Aurangzeb looked doleful.

    Earlier this year, Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) lawmaker had also chanted ‘Go Nawaz Go’ during a protest outside the Punjab Assembly against the incumbent government.

    Member Punjab Assembly, Uzma Bokhari chanted ‘Go Nawaz Go’ slogan, during a protest. When she realised her mistake, she had stopped quickly and changed the slogan.

    The leader of opposition in Punjab Assembly, Hamza Shahbaz, was also present during the protest."

    https://arynews.tv/en/marriyum-aurangzeb-calls-nawaz-sharif-incompetent/
     
  14. Mars
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    For me, the meaning of proof is not singular instances where I can conclusively prove the corrupt practices in the army but rather proof to me is the conclusion gathered from a collection of events which lead to a common result and I prefer not talking about the single events but rather talk of it as a whole. For instsnce, Del called Yahya Khan a savior and I have read enough on Yahya Khan that I can bullshit his claims through actual references in books and events but I don't because I'm not obsessed with collecting evidence and memorizing it to defeat the other person and neither am I a lawyer.

    If you haven't read anything on Pakistani history and politics and are a creation of the poti aye generation then you'll learn your lesson when IK gets kicked in the ass and speaks the same tone as NS but rn he is too busy enjoying trips abroad as the pm where he feels like he has won world cups after meeting trump regardless of making deals upon deals on the sanctity of our nation.
     
  15. godzilla
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    still no comment no how the best team in the country has led the country into bankruptcy. comment on those charts of you have the guts to back up your claims. no comments on how the 'best team in the country' have jobs abroad whilst serving in government, are all in jail because they have been convicted of monetary fraud, corruption and embezzlement, and have accumulated billions in assets abroad. this is the best team available. the team that will control 300+bn of Pakistani economic assets. but the huge problem we should be all focusing on is 4bn worth of army economy.

    utterly shameless.
     
  16. godzilla
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    so no responses on anything that I said.

    instead backtracking on your claims of proof. now proof is a 'feeling'. and oh wait, you will see.

    total humiliation.
     
  17. godzilla
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    back to the subject of the thread now that has all been dealt with:

    "KARACHI: The steps taken by the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) government to recover ailing economy have started yielding results, as the current account deficit (CAD) has witness a remarkable decrease in first three months (July-September) of the current fiscal year.

    According to figures released on Friday, the CAD was recorded at $5.72 billion as compared to $8.79 billion in the corresponding period of the last year.

    Furthermore the exports also saw an increase of nearly 3pc and were recorded at $5.52 billion in the first three months of the ongoing fiscal year.

    The imports were also shrunk by 21 per cent from July to September and stood at $3.78 billion in the month of September.

    On Thursday, Associated Press of Pakistan (APP) had reported that Overseas Pakistani workers had remitted $5478.11 million during the first three months (July-September) of Financial Year 2019-20.

    During the month of September 2019, the inflow of workers’ remittances amounted to $1747.95 million, which is 3.4% higher than August 2019, according to the latest data of State Bank of Pakistan (PBS) released yesterday."

    https://arynews.tv/en/current-account-deficit-shrinks-5-72-bn-july-september/
     
  18. Mars
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    Results are not read. They are seen. I have seen SS build a metro and orange line in Lahore in a few years where as the PTI has not been able to complete its only project in the last 7 years in KPK BRT. I hope you go to Peshawar one day to see the mess that this incompetent team has created.

    Also if you deny the involvement of establishment in our politics then God help you. Thats all.
     
  19. Mars
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    Also I would love to hear from you what the meaning of every anti establishment speech and interview ik used to give in which he claims that these generals want a dog for them as pm)

    IK probably was under the influence of bad friends I guess..lol
     
  20. godzilla
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    its typical of Pakistanis to stick to a losing position when all the evidence points in the opposite direction. the truth doesn't matter to some people their ego does.

    one of the very first interactions we had with each other was that even if the army is interfering in politics, the only way of dealing with that would be a strong civilian government that works with them, like turkey for example. it cannot be removed by a government that can be bought, because then the army would buy them. we have multiple solid proven court results, reams of paper work, international cases that the PMLN and PPP are both run by corrupt, criminal embezzling bought politicians.

    the civilian government, even if we take your book reference as the truth, which is debatable, but for the sake of argument, lets assume military inc is true, she says the military economy is 10bn, and even that is a 'rough guess' - her words. what type of mind would claim that this takes precedent over a 300bn economy? in what world would anyone back a proven, convicted government who has had three terms to deal with the alleged 'military problem' over a new one that has been through the Supreme Court to clear his name, and has successfully done it. even if it is performing poorly in your view, and even if you wanted to rid the country of the military influence and alleged control of civilian government, the ONLY way of doing that would be a successful PTI government which would be strengthened by a second term, and by which strength, they could start to devolve themselves of army interference. there is literally no other way. individuals cant do it. if its a corrupt individual like sharif, maryam, zardari or bilaawal- they will be bought. if they are not a corrupt individual, they will be removed. the army cannot, however, nor can any other institution, fight the public.

    quite apart from the proven corruption of the other two incompetent parties, enough to reject them from any sensible discussion on the best for pakistan, they are both utterly incompetent. those charts show that both have brought the country to its knees. you cannot ignore this.

    so even if we assume you are correct, the military is more corrupt than the civilian government has ever been, even if we assume that you are correct and that military inc is totally the truth, even then they represent a tiny minority of the total pakistan economy, and even then to get rid of them in a way that benefits the country, its is totally irrational and indefensible to support either the PMLN or PPP - they are proven corrupt, and they are economically incompetent, and they will be bought by the army again just as they have been in the past.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  21. godzilla
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    no the interpretation is that sharif was a bought man. simple. he was always a stooge. even you admit that.

    now hes on the Indian payroll, and doing their dirty work, and maryam is right along there with him. the corruption proves he would sell his own mother for money. his sons would rather protect their looted wealth than bury their own mother, thats the kind of people these are that you would support 'every day of the week, and twice on Sundays'.
     
  22. Mycroft Holmes
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    George Orwell has absolutely no baring on this. I think Mr @iZaman your punching well above your weight because your argument is nonsensical and incoherent
     
  23. Mars
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    Argument is valid Only if PTI was actually the pre 2013 PTI which wasn't filled with establishment stooges. This government is nothing except a party of stooges of establishment being lead by a popular donkey.

    Ps. According to reports, corruption has only increased in the last year so that isnt valid either
     
  24. Mars
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    Recommdnded the book to Godzilla because hes obsessed with stats, reports, proof and international media et al.
     
  25. Mycroft Holmes
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    OK. If you are using Orwell to prove some point about stats and proof... Then I think you are missing the point. If anything requesting information and credible stats from reputable sources, international media will serve you well when trying to avoid a totalitarian all seeing state... Nepotism and dynasty building are the kind of things that take us down that path not oversight and transparency.
     
  26. godzilla
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    better a popular donkey than a thieving criminal.

    "according to reports" there is less corruption now with these criminals in jail. according to "reports" the PTI has nothing to do with the establishment, and these were the cleanest elections in Pakistans history.

    according to reports. because its a bad thing in the world of a Patwari to want stats and references when making a nonsense claim.
     
  27. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    Islamophobia = ‘bad’.

    Invading another nation and bombing Muslim Kurds = ‘you have our full support’.

     
  28. Mycroft Holmes
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    Talking of donkeys, the village idiot is back.
    Although the cretin is using the suffering of the kurds for his own cynical arguments he is right.
    Pakistan can't pick and chose what oppressed minorities they want to support.
    Shame on Khan. The kurds are not terrorists and we all know the only reason turkey is attacking them is the same reason that fascist in India are attacking Kashmiris.... Insecurity
     
  29. Mycroft Holmes
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    I honestly don't know WHY AND How Khan can justify this... He could have just maintained neutral on this issue and kept his mouth shut.
     
  30. pat
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    same reasons why he said he knows nothing about the uighurs. self interest.
     
  31. Mycroft Holmes
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    Good, now since you are in tune with human dignity apply it to India.... Or at least tell your alter personality. Otherwise shut up and spare the kurds you faux concern asshat.
     
  32. pat
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    i'm not expressing concern for the Kurds, simply calling out the hypocrisy of PMIK and pak establishment. most of pak can't stomach that.
     
  33. Mycroft Holmes
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    So do you call out the hypocrisy of India? Naah I doubt it... Its ironic that this idiot fails to see his own hypocrisy.
     
  34. godzilla
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    how is turks fighting Kurds islamophobic?

    nothing hypocritical about it at all, his priority is the bankrupt state he has inherited of 220mm people. he's stated this openly and publicly several times.

    perhaps you should concentrate your efforts on the hypocrisy of a so called secular state butchering a minority and deploying totalitarian oppression in a minority region.
     
  35. Mars
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    Is Pakistan more corrupt than before?

    [​IMG]

    ISLAMABAD: Two of the eight international organisations, which contribute in the assessment of Transparency International’s annual global report on corruption, in their 2019 reports have already assessed Pakistan as more corrupt than before.

    Related: ‘Most corrupt govt of last 19 years excluded from PTI govt’s probe’

    These reports have raised many eyebrows here amid fears that it may lead to Pakistan losing its position in the next annual Transparency’s Corruption Perception Index (CPI) report which is expected to be released from Berlin in February 2020. According to a source who is associated with an organisation working to check corruption, the recent World Economic Forum’s report about rise in corruption in Pakistan will be considered by the Transparency International while assessing Pakistan’s efforts to check corruption in its next CPI report.

    More: NAB recovered Rs71 bn in last 22 months from corrupt elements

    On the corruption index of the World Economic Forum’s recent report, the ranking of Pakistan slipped from 99 to 101. The corruption index ranking dropped because of registration of more corruption related cases. Before the World Economic Forum’s assessment, the World Justice Project in its “Rule of Law Index 2019 Insights”, assessed Pakistan to have lost by one position in 2019 as against 2018. The Transparency International globally uses 13 different data sources to construct the Corruption Perceptions Index. However, in the case of Pakistan surveys of eight international organizations are considered which include Bertelsmann Stiftung Transformation Index; Economist Intelligence Unit Country Risk Service; Global Insight Country Risk Ratings; IMD World Competitiveness Center World Competitiveness Yearbook Executive Opinion Survey; World Bank Country Policy and Institutional Assessment; World Economic Forum Executive Opinion Survey; World Justice Project Rule of Law Index; and Varieties of Democracy. The source said two of these eight organizations in their surveys have already reduced Pakistan scores, which indicates that Corruption in Pakistan has increased.

    The source added that NAB Chairman Justice (retd) Justice Javed Iqbal has also stated, “The figures of complaints, inquiries and investigations are almost double as compared to the same period of 2018.” The source said, “This situation is alarming, as all the funding agencies uses CPI scores of country as a vital element while evaluating and mitigation of Risk Assessment for approving Loans, and impositions of stricter terms conditions, to safeguard return of their loans.”

    Even Foreign Banks, it is said, uses CPI scores of country while considering loans on private sector investments of the recipient countries. In its last report of Transparency International, Pakistan was assessed to have made a slight improvement in the Corruption Perception Index 2018 with score of 33 out of 100- one point better than the one in 2017. The country’s ranking in the 2018 report was 117th out of 180 countries as was in 2017.

    Meanwhile, the government is of the viewpoint that the corruption has its roots in the system for the last 70 years and this menace cannot be dealt within 13 months. It said the ratings will not have any big impact on the country’s economy. It said that eradication on corruption is the main point of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf's manifesto, and the government will purge the country of it. It said Prime Minister Imran Khan got the mandate on slogan of anti-corruption and change. The premier has time and again resolved to end it. He also has refused to give any NRO to his political opponents whom he terms as corrupt.
     
  36. Mycroft Holmes
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    Lol, if you support Nawaz sharif and his idiot clan, you really shouldn't be talking about corruption.... Especially when you think the beneficiarys of corruption should be in power.
     
  37. godzilla
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    you are so utterly atrocious at reading your own sources you can't even tell that the vast majority of times you post things that undermine your own position.

    the ranking has dropped because the corruption that was allowed to proliferate freely under your PMLN party has been brought to a stop.
     
  38. pat
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  39. pat
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  40. godzilla
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    rumours going around that Pakistan provided intelligence to the saudis that the recent missile attack on their oil infrastructure did not come from iran. trump has asked IK to attempt a mediation between them and iran too.

    oh, suddenly amir taheri, that bullet proof source of all fact based news that no one has ever heard of (unlike Arundhati Roy who apparently for some reason is unable to tell the truth) goes from 'iran had no interest in talking peace with saudi' to...



    pure unrelated coincidence that IK was there I suppose...

    was that a 24 hour turnaround?

    @pat humiliated for the billionth time.
     

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