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Saqlain Chucking?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Inferno, Apr 21, 2014.

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  1. Inferno
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    Inferno Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 19, 2010
    177
    Let's not beat around the bush, Ajmal's and every other Doosra is a chuck.

    Saqlain bowled it within limits, but I recently watched his doosra ball to Bevan; his elbow definitely looked bent
     
  2. ehtesham
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    ehtesham Cornered Tiger

    Sep 10, 2011
    13,469
    Its just a myth that Saqlain didn't chuck. Check his bowling in the 96 tour down under, his elbow was in suspicious positions more often than not. He always gets away because he didn't give it a jerk as Ajmal and Hafeez do.
     
  3. SwingNSeam
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    SwingNSeam Boom Boom

    Sep 12, 2010
    24,743
    yes inferno please dont tell the ICC about ajmal.
     
  4. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,775
    he got away with it because "giving it a jerk" is exactly what chucking is, keeping your elbow bent is within the rules of cricket

    no way would aus or eng umps have given him a pass if they had even a tiny bit of suspicion his action was dodgy.

    just for the cynics check out this wonderful video, tonnes of footage, straight on, side on, real time, slow motion, in each delivery his arm is as bent at the point of release as it is when his wrist goes above his shoulder in his delivery stride. totolly legal, every time.

     
  5. ehtesham
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    ehtesham Cornered Tiger

    Sep 10, 2011
    13,469
    Bending the arm or whatever, Saqlain's action might have been less dubious as compared to his peers but wasn't totally clean. Murali destroyed the game more than serving it.

    P.s If you want to see a clean action, check Swann's.
     
  6. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    Saqlain Mushtaq was possibly the cleanest off-spinner to have delivered the doosra - there is a reason his action was never brought into disrepute nor questioned, if I recall correctly.

    The issue with the legality of a bowling action isn't in delivering the ball when the elbow is bent - it is in fact due to the unnecessary flexing of the elbow at the point of release (the straightening of the arm to generate velocity/power). This is evident with the ICC's definition of a legitimate ball/action:

    "A ball is fairly delivered in respect of the arm if, once the bowler’s arm has reached the level of the shoulder in the delivery swing, the elbow joint is not straightened partially or completely from that point until the ball has left the hand. This definition shall not debar a bowler from flexing or rotating the wrist in the delivery swing."

    Therefore, considering this information, would you still regard Saqi's action as dubious - especially bearing in mind that from footage of his bowling, the majority of his pace is clearly produced from hip rotation and his knees rather than any unlawful, conspicuous flexing of the elbow?
     
  7. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    That is such a wonderful video - I've watched it countless times before.

    A pure magician Saqlain was - poetry in motion, just as Warne and Mushy were.

     
  8. Stan1
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    Stan1 Talented

    Sep 8, 2011
    2,272
    straightening of the arm constitutes a chuck.. i cannot believe the cricket professors on here talking about how saqlain wasnt legitimate - he has never been called for throwing ever, because the umpires could not find a fault in his action, stop with the self hate.
     
  9. SwingNSeam
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    SwingNSeam Boom Boom

    Sep 12, 2010
    24,743
    Many people here are more trained than professionals in this field apparently.
     
  10. SwingNSeam
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    SwingNSeam Boom Boom

    Sep 12, 2010
    24,743
    We got bigger professionals sitting at PP also.
     
  11. Inferno
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    Inferno Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 19, 2010
    177
    Our sister site seems to have copied my thread.

    I am just saving that ball to Bevan looks very unusual to his other doosras.
     
  12. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    I can't seem to find a video of this aforementioned delivery: do you mean the famous delivery to Martyn?



    Or the one to Gilchrist?

     
  13. Bruce Wayne
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    Bruce Wayne Smooth Operator

    May 22, 2012
    4,253
    Think you're over exaggerating, The man had a great action. Smooth and simple.
     
  14. ehtesham
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    ehtesham Cornered Tiger

    Sep 10, 2011
    13,469
    When chuckers like Rayudu and Maqsood get away with it, we (professors) have all the right to doubt abilities of legends officiating international matches.

    Saqlain remained well within 15 degrees that's why he never got reported, but saying his action wasn't dubious at all is mere exaggeration. Every offie should be thankful to Murali for buying them an advantage of 15 degrees. Get rid of this rule and we'll see whose action is clean.
     
  15. ehtesham
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    ehtesham Cornered Tiger

    Sep 10, 2011
    13,469
    No doubt his doosra was far more cleaner than Murali's/Ajmal's but that doesn't mean he didn't use the 15 degree rule to his advantage. My point is, doosra can't be bowled with a clean action.

    Rules got rewritten once Murali was reported, I'm disputing the rules here.


    As per by-laws it wasn't, but if you take the 15 degree rule out then it was.
     
  16. Saurav
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    Saurav Talented

    Sep 29, 2012
    1,129

    lol hes a part timer,I hope hes banned from bowling as Dhoni will give him more bowling lol
     
  17. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Moderator

    Dec 26, 2011
    8,509
    Saqlain once said he use to cut his hand whilst mastering the doosra because of tweaking his fingers- if one was to bend their elbow to bowl the doosra, they would release pressure off their bowling hand. This for me proves that Saqi had the straightest elbow on delivery of the doosra.
     
  18. Stan1
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    Stan1 Talented

    Sep 8, 2011
    2,272
    if he stayed within the 15 degree flex and was NEVER reported it isnt dubious, i guess people value their perceived cricketing knowledge more than the legacy of one of our finest ever cricketers.
     
  19. Victorious Pakistan
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    Victorious Pakistan Smooth Operator

    Feb 29, 2012
    4,777
    Can't believe he got away with it. :lol
     
  20. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    Any doubters have to listen to his explanation of how he developed the doosra:

     
  21. Inferno
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    Inferno Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 19, 2010
    177
    Yes
    , the delivery to Martyn, sorry
     
  22. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    That's fine, no problem.

    I think the point still stands though: there isn't any flexing of the elbow/straightening of the arm.
     
  23. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

    Sep 21, 2012
    20,696
    This Bevan then turned into Martyn, a leftie turned into a right handed batsman.......

    Wonder how much more this will change, maybe he won't be flexing it either now? :)
     
  24. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,775
    the recent devlopments re ajmal getting banned put into perspective what a special bowler saqi was, yes i am a fanboy, but still the only bowler to bowl a clean doosra, such a shame his career was so short.

    i know this sounds douchey but modern bowlers were taking the piss out of saqis legacy, that no one can bowl it legally shows how rare saqi as a bowler was. beware imitations, there's only one saqlain mushtaq.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Inswinger
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    Inswinger Tracer Bullet

    Mar 6, 2010
    7,155
    It's sad that self-proclaimed "experts" can't differentiate between bent elbow and the straightening of the elbow.
     
  26. ehtesham
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    ehtesham Cornered Tiger

    Sep 10, 2011
    13,469
    Yeah Azhar Ali is better than Du Plessis.
     

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