Should NS be allowed to travel abroad?

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by godzilla, Nov 11, 2019.

Should NS be allowed to travel abroad?

  1. NO

  2. YES

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  1. godzilla
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    godzilla Smooth Operator

    May 12, 2016
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    The news stories are all over the place.

    Some say he is in genuine critical condition, others say that the medical reports are from his own private hospital and are concocted.

    The government say they dont want the responsibility of the decision, and its up to NAB, who will be accountable if he doesnt return, and NAB say its up to the interior ministry.

    Politicians are saying a helicopter is already booked for Wednesday, others that too many politicians in the cabinet are not happy with his planned escape.

    Some say he is returning $12bn to the national exchequer, and has agreed not to come back into Pakistani politics, and this is a plea bargain with the condition that it is not released in public; others say this is an NRO with pressure from the dharna, possibly.

    All kinds of opinions and information all over the place.

    So what do you think?

    I am of the opinion that he should not be allowed to leave. Given the family portfolio of vast wealth abroad, and his alleged expertise in various mills in his career, he was well placed ed to build whatever medical facilities he wanted to in Pakistan. I think he should be given assess to the same medical facilities as any other prisoner in Pakistan, and if that includes hospitalisation, it should be at one of the hospitals he built for his awam that he apparently cares so much about, during his tenures as a three-time premier. That would be fair.

    On the other hand, if he does leave, I think it will take a huge amount of work from IK to persuade his supporters that he has not betrayed one of his pivotal promises of accountability and the end of VIP culture.
     
  2. godzilla
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  3. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    No question that Khan is facing some serious challenges and it will hurt his narrative of NOT giving NRO to any of these filths. However, if he also said that "plea bargain" option is available for all, return the money and leave the country for good, which is happening atm I believe. But the million dollar question is how Nawaz will leave without making it public that he has done "plea bargain" and returning money? For this they made stage this "drama" of platelets counts, due to which he must have to go abroad for treatment. Now another question is why count has given him 8 weeks of time for his treatment? Will they do the same towards those prisons who are genuinely ill - 1000% no, they wouldnt, so there you go, here is the deal which was given to him from up straight.

    Now the issue is stuck on guarantee, who will give the assurance that Ganga will be back? And nobody is ready to give this assurance.

    I think Govt should use his filth daughter Maryam Safdar as bargaining chip along with his all assets within the country.

    He was given 8 weeks on medical grounds, so if he's not returned than throw his daughter behind the bar to do his jail term and liquidate all his assets in Pakistan.

    And I dont buy that hogwarh argument that Maryam needs to go with him so that he can takecare of him. Did she leave her month (when she was ill) and ran the election campaign? And as for Nawaz health, his son's and their families are enough to takacare of him.
     
  4. godzilla
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    im not a fan of any approval at all, but this announcement today from the cabinet looks like its an incredible innings declaration.

    astoundingly, it looks like Nawaz Sharif is not prepared to issue surety bonds in order to secure his medical assessment abroad. this move is exposing him even further, so that even the blind corrupt supporters are going to have to blink.

    so apparently he can go as long as he puts up bonds for the amounts stated in the cases against him, and as long as he gets permission from the court. if you were genuinely ill, and if you genuinely wanted to seek life saving medical work, you would do that in a split second without thinking. all it is is a surety that you will return, its not a admission of any guilt in any case. but the fact that all of his representatives are crying about court technicalities rather than saying yes, tells you in black and white terms what these people are about. he has no intention to return!
     
  5. godzilla
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    interesting comments. in the two weeks he has been out on bail, he has undergone no tests, hasnt visited any hospitals etc. 7 arab rupees, and the avenfield apartments. and shabaz as the petitioner will have to put up the bonds. really superb move by the PTI. speculation is that independent doctors are not signing off on the medical reports and the necessity for him to seek medical service outside of the country.
     
  6. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    I was already skeptical about if this a$$ is ill. He has nothing whatsoever, its all just topi drama.
     
  7. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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  8. godzilla
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    godzilla Smooth Operator

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    tonight's power play with Arshad sharif is brutal and well worth watching - he rips Usman Dar and the PTI open, and I agree with him.
     
  9. godzilla
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  10. Del
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  11. godzilla
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    Ali Haider Zaidi
    @AliHZaidiPTI

    I simply fail to understand why some in the Sharif Family & PMLN are playing with the life of their leader. If Nawaz’s health is that serious that no hospital in Pakistan can treat him, just deposit the bond & take him abroad for treatment! Is money more precious than life?
     
  12. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    Simply put, then are freaking miser's.
     
  13. godzilla
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    im finding this all fascinating, and im coming out very much critical of IK on this matter, despite pulling off this brilliant move, im still extremely disappointed.

    1) there is the issue of VIP culture. how is there even a discussion of sending NS out of the country, when there are thousands of people rotting in jail, no doubt many of them with health issues. this extends to the plea bargain too - I dont like the idea of letting either NS or AZ off if they pay back money. they should both pay back money and rot in jail, thats what happens to all other thieves, although I suppose if this is the only way the country can get its money back, perhaps its understandable, if not acceptable.

    2) secondly, the vote today to let him go conditionally, was allegedly done under the pretence of compassion. WHY is any compassion being shown to this convicted criminal, particularly when the whole PTI campaign was about anti-corruption?

    3) why havent they received proper health and legal advice before doing anything? there's rumours all over the place from independent panels of doctors saying that NS is in a life threatening position, to NS just needs a couple of tests that are not available here, to the results are concocted. why isnt there clarity in a press release of exactly what and who has examined him? equally with the legality. NAB nor the government wants the responsibility for when NS absconds, which he will. he is going to Harley street, which everyone on the planet knows is an extraordinarily expensive street for private medical practice - they will issue whatever notice you pay them to issue, so 100% guaranteed they will write that he cannot travel and has to stay in the UK. some politicians are saying there is no legal grounds for him to leave the country, others are saying there is no restriction on him leaving, its all a total mess and nothing is clear. with all that confusion, why are they having cabinet meetings and votes, without being fully informed?

    4)which other prisoners are allowed out on bail because a family member is sick? on what basis did the LHC/IHC allow maryam to escape jail, and will they allow all prisoners whose parents are sick to leave on bail? this may have some explanation, im not sure whether she is currently in jail pending investigation, or for conviction; I know her previous conviction was bailed pending appeal.

    all of this while the sharif family have a deep and long history of absconding.

    essentially the conditions that the PTI have placed are essentially the same as a plea bargain, so that will be the explanation - but this whole process of voting him out on compassion, including an alleged vote from IK, is going to lose them a tonne of votes and support.
     
  14. Mycroft Holmes
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    I wouldn't say VIP culture per se but a case of optics. Ask yourself how it makes khan look if he doesnt let this toad leave the country. We know hes corrupt but if khan denied him 'life saving' medical treatment then you'd have ppl like izaman running around calling khan a autocrat etc. Khan by asking for collateral achieves a level of plausible deniability. if Nawaz wants to leave he can pay up an amount that im assuming will be returned to sharif upon return.
     
  15. godzilla
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    The current offer is that these monies would be returned upon his return, yes. But the sharif’s have declined the conditional offer via the PMLN?! What’s it got to do with the PMLN? His name is on the ECL and he wants to leave, so why is the party responding for him?

    with respect to vip culture - it is, sadly. This compassion shown to NS is not being shown to hundreds of thousands of other prisoners. So that’s black and white.

    with regards to optics, who cares? They will of course politicise it if he dies, but they will politicise in all events. Is him dying in custody because he was convicted of crimes by his own hands anyone’s fault but his own? That’s the tack the PTI should be following. Equally, should he abscond, I would argue the optics would be much worse for the PTI - these were key election promises. They are essentially about to do exactly what musharraf did, which he has said was his single biggest regret.
     
  16. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

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  17. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

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    Unless he pays the fine imposed in the form of surity bonds
     
  18. godzilla
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    apparently yesterday the sharifs said they wouldn't pay. they are communicating through the PMLN which doesnt make sense to me, it has nothing to do with a political party issue, its about a sick prisoner. today the Law Minister Farogh Naseem after taking legal advice yesterday and reserving judgement, allegedly, has confirmed his recommendation to the cabinet that a surety bond is appropriate, and so they have asked SS or his moocow of a niece as the petitioners, to put up 7-7.5bn rupees as surety.

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2098689/1-uncertainty-persists-removal-nawazs-name-ecl/

    lets see what the sharifs do.

    I've mentioned my views above, but to recap:

    a) I dont understand why the PMLN are officially involved at all
    b) I dont know why NS is being offered the facility to go abroad when other prisoners are not
    c) I dont know what the PTI are offering any kind of compassionate considerations for a convicted looter who was head of state - thats should be treason and the harshest possible sentence, not compassion
    d) I dont understand the legality of: 1) allowing him to go abroad when there are pending cases and 2) of asking for a surety bond.
     
  19. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    [​IMG]

    This is all this SOB can do, bloody miser.
     
  20. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    [​IMG]
     
  21. Mars
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    Mars Talented

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    LOL! The only answer is that theres no PTI here.. It's the establishment (state according to del) which makes the decisions. Go and ask them.
     
  22. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    No need to drag me in every single post of your Zaman.

    Insan bano !!!
     
  23. Mars
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    Why can't I talk about you? Can you show me a rule in your self-made mod rules where it mentions I can't take your name?

    Stop abusing your power and stop sending me threatening DMs. Tum meray baap ni ho.
     
  24. godzilla
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    no it isnt. the only answer is that indian unicorns and Israeli fairies have been using their magic dust to hypnotise Jemima's cousin, wiki.

    note the difference between true supporters of pakistan, and people who only care about their own money irrespective of the people. true supporters are happy to be objective and criticise the people they support. profiteers lie and deceive shamelessly.
     
  25. Mars
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    You guys should first decide whether there is something called a "state" or not.

    Once you decide this, do tell me so I can answer accordingly.
     
  26. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    You were arguing with godzila, than why are you dragging me in that argument?

    I am not absuing any power here at all, but for that to understand, one needs common sense, which of course you dont have.
     
  27. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    LOL, nice way to run away like a coward.
     
  28. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    Also, I can explain every bit of it, but its not best use of my time to waste of a biased and rigit like you.
     
  29. Mars
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    You are abusing your power by sending me threatening DMs with words like "Oye". Stay in your auqaat or just ban me if you want this forum to remain PTI-exclusive.

    Also, I was mentioning a point relevant to PTI supporters. Godzilla doesnt agree that there is an establishment. It is all fairytales according to him and according to "del" the state is the most important composite of a government.
     
  30. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    Threatening you, are you in your sense or have lost it totally like you leader "Nawaz" & "Fazlu"?

    When you will drag me in your argument with ABC poster than I have every right to act in any way I want, not at mod but just as a regular poster of CS. So dont every trying to play that "threatening" card. Also, no need to make thing complicated with what I believe and say vs. what godzila or anybody believe or say.
     
  31. Mars
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    You have sent me 2 dms. You have warned me and deleted my post for something which my counterparts did worse (calling dimwit. the word which even you have used in the forums mroe than once) and also constantly trying to harass me.

    I hope somebody puts reins on you. You are acting like a spoiled kid who is given powers which he can't control. Stop acting like the boss here.
     
  32. godzilla
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    godzilla Smooth Operator

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    is it completely in the realms of fairy land for you that different people can have different opinions?
     
  33. Mars
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    Mars Talented

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    I want you guys to solve this issue together..would be fun to see.
     
  34. godzilla
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    godzilla Smooth Operator

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    I want you to have some integrity.

    we cant all get what we want.

    like an NRO.
     
  35. Mars
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    Mars Talented

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    NRO? LOL! Ok the same NRO which IK swore he wouldn't give?
     
  36. godzilla
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    godzilla Smooth Operator

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    has he given one?

    how come youve avoided the question in this thread - should NS your qaid and leader of thievery and dacoitery, a convicted criminal, be allowed to travel abroad?
     
  37. Mars
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    Mars Talented

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    I do not accept "dual-justice system"...Had IKs Bani Gala and his sisters wealth as well as PTI foreign funding case been going through with the same "public" attention and justice, I would agree with you.

    Right now, the justice system is compromised. It is working according to the wishes of estabilishment and now the establishment wants NS out because he has become their pain in head.

    Listen to what a current minister and a "chaprasi turned friend" has to say about it. These are not my words.
    Only answer this video. Dont run away

     
  38. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

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    For nth time, I am only posting just like any other poster here, but you are butthurt only because I removed your posts and since than I noticed you have start dragging me while you argu with others, whats up with this? That all I am asking, but our propaganda queen is trying to paint it like I am trying to harass here, bravo.

    And for record if you think you can find a easy exist by telling godzila that look this is what del thinks and vice-verse and derail the discussion, than you are big time mistaken - it wouldt work with sane people dude but nice try.
     
  39. godzilla
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    godzilla Smooth Operator

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    ah so now the justice system doesnt work? so then you would disagree with the bail allowance for maryam and Nawaz, because the justice system doesnt work. bani gala was cleared. his sister was never in government. so as usual that is bullshit. but good to see you disagree with the bail arrangements and agree that ns should be locked in a deep dungeon with the key thrown away, along with his criminal liar of a daughter.
     
  40. Mars
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    Mars Talented

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    I don't agree with their locking up let alone getting free because the system isn't equal. Bani Gala couldn't have gotten cleared because IK has lied twice on it. And Aleema Baji got her "free-pass" by getting a termination in the laws of "Tax evasion scheme" whereby the government removed the law which mentioned that the amnesty won't work for people who are siblings of those who are in government.

    Oh and the foreign funding case.. CAn you tell me why PTI is running away from it? Why is the case not being shown in public? Why is PTI running away from its audit. Why is a former PTI senior member swearing his life on how the Dharna was funded by corruption?
     

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