Sikandar Bakht, mithaai baante, main wapis nahi aa raha:- Misbah

Aren't you the one who started the Misbah cancer thread which the majority of posters agreed was undignified and stooped too low?

 

Since when was Afridi an aggressive captain? All we talked about after WC 2011 was how defensive and poor Afridi's captaincy is. Aamer Sohail even called it 'ghatiya' which was the wrong word to use but it shows how bad his captaincy was and how the tint on some people's glasses is so strong they're literally blinded to balance.

 

Afridi is an aggressive batsmen, but an awfully defensive captain. Maybe even more defensive than Misbah. YK and Malik were probably the two decent captains we had.

 

Well his ODI career Strike Rate is pretty much indicative of Afridi's aggressive nature.

 

Woah woah woah!

Yes Misbah deserves his 'share of the blame', yes he had 4 years to build a squad and he failed, yes he should have been stricter and he wasn't, yes he should have demanded for better players but he didn't, yes he shouldn't have just dozed off on the field unfortunately he did and cost us countless games etc etc ...

But to blame the whole damn issue on him, that's way OTT!

You don't have a solid domestic structute, rather than develop you, it actually is detremential to your development, 95% of us here probably don't have a clue what it's like, you have departments dominating domestic scenes, you've barely tapped into provinces like Azad Kashmir, Balochistan, Sindh completely, your whole structure is down right BS, you have legends like; Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Javed, Inzi, Zaheer etc who consistently tell you how pathetic it is and that you need to re structute it all, yet you ignore them and continue on your merry ways.

Yet people continue to blame the captain, he can't hold a frigging bat for you, he can't run around the field like superman and hold your catches for you, he can't tell you what to do in every situation, god has given these players a brain maybe it's time to utilise it!

Besides why the hell are the likes of; (getting away with it)

Ijaz Butt - this clown completely destroyed your countries image, soured our cricketing relationships everywhere, did what he wanted with the team, chucked out anyone and bought in anyone, anyone was made captain or whatever.

Zaka - this clown ran the PCB into a huge legal battle simple because his ego needed satisfying.

Mohammed Illyas, Iqbal Qasim, Salim Jaffer - these pathetic guys made some of the worst selections of all time, they are equally responsible for building a squad for the WC, why are people all of a sudden ignoring their role in this! They're the SELECTORS FFS! People who select the squad!!

Najam Sethi, Shakeel Sheikh, Shehreyar Khan - What about these guys roles eh? Guys responsible for the overall running of our cricket, yet why is the same cricket structure they're in charge of deteriorating every other day.

Dav Whatmore, Julien Fountain, Waqar, Grant Flower, Luden etc - these so called tactical coaches, what is there role? When was the last time anyone of them made a decent decision? When will they be grilled for allowing a crappy team to be built, if I'm coach I'm sure as hell not going to take YK over Fawad now am I, yet no-one has an issue with that.

But no no no no no no no, wait let me just handpick out Misbah since we have a 'selective memory' disorder and ignore the rest of these tools to continue to plunder the PCB's treasury and happily destroy our cricket infrasturcture, at least we found a scapegoat.

 

Please see the post #41 in this thread and post #32 in that thread.

I have already clarified that I did not call Misbah cancer. I called "tuk-tuk-culture" a cancer - as the heading of the thread states. At least I don't abuse, threaten, ridicule or disrespect any poster who calls "whatever" to the player I like! One only does those type of thing when of course he/she runs out of the cricketing arguments.

I guarantee you that Pakistan's S/R will go up after Mibsah leaves. I am willing to take any bets from any Misbah fans. You can't just score 250 in the name of rebuilding the innings and hope that your bowling will defend the total when other teams are scoring 300+/350+ total.

I would have rather us lose like this than fool the fans by blaming everything on top 3 batsmen - as if no other #4 or #5 batsman ever walked in at 33/3 and played a gem of an innings with S/R of 100-125!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/656489.html

 

I'm sorry to say, but if you're saying what happened with Wasim in 96 was justified, then that is a very jaahilaana mentality. It's a sport. Nobody deserves to get kidnapping threats or have their homes pelted with stones as a result of a loss.

Misbah should be criticized. Constructive criticism is always welcome, especially since he had 4 years to build this side. What he doesn't deserve is for people to take personal cheap shots at him.

 

well that was good captaincy but dont u think it came too late. we all criticized misbah's captaincy for a reason before. he wasnt proactive or aggressive in the field. if he cud have shown the same aggression he did in the last 2 matches of wc we could have been a decent team going into the wc. not all misbah's fault but partly it is.

 

Well if you're basing how aggressive someone's captaincy is on their batting strike rate then no wonder your comments are so far off the mark. The reason Afridi's batting strike rate is so high has nothing to do with controlled aggression, his batting average and career record is sufficient evidence of that.

The main reason Afridi's batting strike rate is so high is because he doesn't care about the team, only about brand Boom Boom which is what gets him so many commercials saying 'Lala, araam se' or 'Dont hit everything for six, Lala'

All this comment shows is that you dont understand the difference between aggressive captaincy and swinging wildly at every delivery without any plan. Captains have to be able to execute plans, that's why Afridi was such a poor captain.

 

:clap :clap

 

Waqar fears cricket in Pakistan will die.

http://mobi.supersport.com/cricket/.../150324/Waqar_fears_death_of_Pakistan_cricket

I guess this is Misbah's fault too?

 

What an unnecessary and passive aggressive post. Highly insensitive too.

We all know that cricket not being played is a hurtful issue for all Pakistanis and has nothing to do with any player.

 

Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make. The problems with Pak cricket start at grassroots. And btw, how was my comment aggressive?!

 

Saleem Jaffer also cost us the 1987 WC semi final with his pathetic bowling. Gave away 18 runs in the last over of the innings against Aussies and we lost by the same margin. :shrug

Poor player poor official

 

Because you're taking a piss on every Misbah hater by saying that. I am a "Misbah hater" but never would I blame that on Misbah. It's a preemptive strike.

 

I actually said Afridi's SR is indicative of his aggressive nature.

You got to be aggressive by nature to be an aggressive kaptaan. Whether it is controlled aggression or not is neither here nor there. Cook, Misbah to name a couple have been criticised time and time again for their defensive fielding placements - it's because both said players do not like taking risk. It's in their nature.

Misbah is a defensive and risk averse player. There is no doubt about it. Had he been just a player and not a Kaptaan, then it would've been a different story, but the fact is, his cool, calm, and collective approach as Kaptaan has done more harm for Pakistan cricket than good.

 

There you go again. Being an aggressive person has nothing to do with the nature of your captaincy. An aggressive captain doesn't just go and punch the opposition players in the face and win the match because they all run away.

An aggressive captain has to understand game plans, he has to know players weaknesses and be able to set a plan to those players. He has to know when to restrict singles and when to let the opposition take singles. In order to understand how to do that you have to be able to know when to do it yourself.

Afridi's bowling is a good indication of how defensive a player he is. He is a leg spinner who tries to keep runs down. He's a legspinner who doesnt like to bowl with the new ball, he's a leg spinner who doesnt like to bowl in the bowling powerplay or at the death.

How aggressive does that sound? He's an opening batsman who dropped himself down the order as far as possible away from the new ball and pace bowlers as possible. An aggressive batsman would have relished the challenge of taking the new ball or opening the innings against the oppositions quickest bowlers.

Afridi is a wild slogger, there's no aggression in that just a lack of understanding about being a team player.

 

Spot on!

Afridi was a very defensive captain. The thing which people call aggression was basically just acting animated and clapping every ball and screaming at fielders.

An aggressive captain does not need to do all this. His field settings, bowling changes and body language defines his aggression, not clapping and screaming and slogging

 

So your issue with my statement is I'm using Afridi as an example of an aggressive cricketer when I shouldn't be?

Well, we can grant the notion for the sake of this thread. Afridi is not aggressive. Doesn't change the fact that Misbah is neither, because most of what you have said above, also applies to Misbah the kaptaan.

You have to be aggressive by nature to be an aggressive kaptaan. If you disagree, then you are free to falsify my point by citing some examples of kaptaans who are risk averse, but aggressive in captaincy.

 

I've said many times that Misbah is not an aggressive captain but then neither is Afridi. At least use a relevant example.

 

So I am correct. Your issue is I am using Afridi as an 'aggressive' example, nothing else.

Which brings me back to my original point - you have to be aggressive by nature to be an aggressive Kaptaan. Which from the sounds of it you pretty much agree with.

Why bother?

 

I don't think he agrees with that and neither do I. Afridi is an aggressive batsman but not an aggressive captain. Misbah's captaincy is more aggressive than his batting. There doesn't seem to be any pattern or correlation.

You can be defensive in your approach and be an aggressive captain and vice versa. There's no rule.

 

No, you dont need to be aggressive as a person to be an aggressive captain. From our recent captains Hafeez and Younis have both been more aggressive in their captaincy than Afridi and Misbah. Even Malik was aggressive as a captain in the 2007 T20 WC.

But I wouldnt say Younis, Malik or Hafeez are aggressive personalities.

 

Ganguly, Wasim Akram, Ponting, & Imran Khan are examples of aggressive personalities and aggressive captains.
Dravid, Sachin, Mohammad Yousuf, Zaheer Abbas, Hanif Mohammad are examples of very mild personalities and defensive captains.

 

Is this the latest Misbah sob story.

I've never known so many sob stories for one player

 

Apparently patting players = Aggressive captaincy

 

Sikandar Bakht the anchor strikes me as less smart/catchy than he thinks. And the rest of GEO is a joke anyway

 

I would blame the General if he had much power, but Misbah didn't. As I said earlier, since Inzamam's retirement PCB has systematically tried to undermine captains. They did the same in 2001-03 with captains like Rashid Latif, Waqar Younis and Moin Khan. In cricket your captain NEEDS imho to be much stronger than PCB has permitted. Even Afridi w/ his massive influence etc not ever really a particularly strong captain, the PCB cut him adrift as soon as possible in 2011. Players refusing to wear the helmet epitomized that

With Inzamam-ul-Haq, Wasim Akram and Imran Khan the PCB never managed to undermine the captain in this fashion. And that's why our teams in that time were quite strong.

I don't blame Misbah when the post was systematically undermined already

 

DONhill WHAT? There's no link b/w aggressive batsmanship and aggressive captaincy. Saeed Anwar was a terribly timid captain but a brilliant daring batsman. Inzamam the captain was very defensive even though he was a fairly aggressive player. Younus, as captain, batted extremely defensively (in fact that's when his one-day downfall started) but his captaincy etc were very aggressive indeed

 

I can't believe people thought we had a chance to win the world cup with this team. We have no batsman. The best batsman we had was Misbah and in my opinion he is a severely limited batsman. At best he is a support batsman that blocks an end to allow the more progressive batsman to play their game.
Ajmal and Hafeez getting banned and then Junaid getting injured was the reason this team looked so dis-joined. We played the past four years on the backs of our spinners. Lost them right before the WC.
No captain can win you the WC when your batsman are incapable of going past 250 on a regular bases.

 

I guess you saw lots of Hanif Mohammad's matches as captain to come to that conclusion? MoYo was actually a fairly aggressive captain but then he had good bowlers under him. He had the Aussies rocking until he lost his bottle after Kamran's repeated dropped catches. After that he was all over the place and let the game wander.

As a player Sachin was quite aggressive, he didn't back down from anyone and he was the same as a captain. He wasnt a good captain but that's not the same as not being an aggressive captain. He expected everyone to be able to perform as consistently and as brilliantly as he did. I remember reading he quit the captaincy because he expected too much from players and caused unrest in the team.

Exactly. As a player and a personality Waqar was more aggressive than Wasim but as a captain he was defensive whilst Wasim was aggressive. Inzamam was an aggressive and assertive personality and player. He was very self confident but as a captain he was very defensive.

You dont get more aggressive than Moin Khan as a player but as a captain he was very safety first and defensive minded. Conversely the quiet and retiring Latif was a forthright captain who ably fielded a young side after the 2003 World Cup debacle.

Aggressive players dont make aggressive captains, they may make aggressive and bullheaded people but that doesnt make them aggressive captains.

 

Mercenary other factor is that Misbah while overall a defensive captain (unrelated to his batsmanship) had actually set very aggressive fields this WC, it was a pleasant surprise

 

Mercenary yep in the 2009 NZ series, the 2009 Melbourne Test and the start of the Sydney Test Yousuf had captained very attackingly, especially the NZ series. After Kamran's drops he just withered, it was quite strange

 

Aggressive captaincy is when the captain claps after every ball, pats players on the backs, grimaces when a catch is dropped and criticizes the fielding when an error is made.

 

This is what I disagree with. Although the post may be undermined, I believe it is the responsibility of the "post-taker" (employee) to raise an issue with how he is being treated. If he strongly believes he needs something to do his job, then he should fight for it. I could raise a point that either Misbah is too sheepish to stand up for what he wants and is a yes man (which is a bad quality for a captain) or is too selfish to give up his captaincy and will just agree with whatever team he's given.

Maybe you can help me see the other side.

 

Exactly. People think of Moyo post Kamran's drops and not before Kamran's drops. I remember how impressed everyone was with MoYo's captaincy and how attacking he was. It's one thing to have weapons like Asif, Aamer, Gul and Ajmal. It's another thing to make them count the way he did.

Bowling NZ out for 150-odd after they had put up over 400 in the first innings. Bowling the Aussies out for 130 at Sydney. Far from a defensive captain until after the Kamran saga.

 

What was this Kamran sage? Did his drops have that big of an effect on his captaincy?

 

Pakistan went into the the second innings with a lead of 200 over the Aussies. The Aussies were 3 wickets down for 150-ish and Kamran dropped Hussey 3 times in about 15 overs. After that MoYo just looked like he'd lost the plot, rubbish decisions and uninspired bowling changes and field placings.

He let the game drift so much that some fans were questioning whether the game was fixed. The Aussies were finished but came back to win it because of Kamrans drops and MoYos captaincy. It was like Ronaldo in the 1998 World Cup final. He looked like a zombie, he just didn't have the mental strength to deal with it.

 

My brain cells just died after reading this comment

 

Good players can be easily found on grocery shelves and on trees as well... if you have a failed infrastructure, then you would have incompetent players... use some part of your brain when you comment.