The overhyped Pakistan Pacers in Tests

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Passionate Pakistani, Jan 6, 2019.

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  1. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    67,582
    They have picked up 25 wickets so far which includes 3 by Yasir and Shaheen so literally they have picked only 22 wickets whereas Olivier a nobody who was a fringe player for SA before this series and got nod only after Philander (1st Test) and Ngidi were ruled out.

    Forget about SA, the much more mocked indian attack picked all 60 wickets against SA and SA might have a top notch bowlibg attack, their batting is the weakest in a long long time, still our shaheen failed miserably.

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  2. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    I mean 3 by Yasir n Shan

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  3. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 16, 2010
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    But then to make the matters of worse, our captain was banking on Yasir Shah.

    I think, in a press statement before the test series, he said something like, “World Class” Yasir is going to be the difference.

    I mean, I am a little nobody, and I said, it’s going to be quite a challenge for Yasir as Sourh Africa is not UAE.

    If a little no one, like me, can figure this out but our captain can’t, then Allah he Hafiz hai hamara.

    Anyway, let’s hope for a better fought 3rd Test.
     
  4. Patriot
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    Patriot Boom Boom

    Oct 8, 2014
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    while I agree with your post but I also want to point out that most of these SA pacers are home track bullies. You won't see Olivier get even 4fers overseas. He can at best be another Philander, great at home, nothing abroad
     
  5. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    Obviously fast bowlers thrive in such conditions in which ours failed.

    There is no such thing as HTB for bowlers. They need certain conditions to thrive, doesnt matterwhere they are

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  6. Patriot
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    Patriot Boom Boom

    Oct 8, 2014
    24,405
    only SA bowlers can be called HTB because they basically do that. They have been playing on these tracks all their life, they know where to bowl and how to bowl.

    Another very good example is Roger Telemacus if you recall him, he was a beast in SA. Flopped miserably overseas.


    regarding our bowlers, Younis Khan made a valid and clear point. Poor preparation is the cause of these losses, we should have arrived SA 2-3 weeks prior just like we did in 2016 against England
     
  7. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Tracer Bullet

    Dec 11, 2010
    6,255
    Not really overhyped..

    Shaheen is ok. Nothing special. Hype is due to age and height. Not based on performance to date.

    Amir is ok in seam or swing conditions. Nothing special but not awful either.

    Abbas is amazing. 1 poor test following 2 month lay off doesn't change his achievements to date.

    So far 1st test they did ok. Didn't have enough runs to play with. 2nd test it was a below average performance mainly due to Abbas and Yasir
     
  8. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
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    Ajeeb tuk hai. Pacers thrive in seaming conditions or on helpful pitches..doesnt matter where they are. Pakistan pacers wont do zilch anywhere else if they dont perform on these pitches against such a weak batting lineup.

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  9. Mohan
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    Mohan Formerly 'Captain Clutch'

    Nov 4, 2014
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    Kuptaan laments trundling bowlers.

     
  10. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 16, 2010
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    Who knows the last test brings some charm back into our pace bowling?

    Johannesburg’s pitch traditionally is the fastest one in SA.
     
  11. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
    2,755
    you cant keep expecting your bowlers to pull you out the fire when there is never any scoreboard pressure, ever. with literally no real preparation the bowling attack kept pak in the hunt in the first test. in the second test SA batted with ease for relatively long periods, as did shan, shafiq and babar. pak lost the test primarily because of the batting implosion on the first morning.

    there has been a consistent theme of chopping and changing the bowling attack under sarfraz's tenure with the middle order fairly untouchable.

    shaheen literally has no first class experience and hes playing against a top quality test side. he hasnt set the world on fire, but he hasnt let the side down either.

    shah has been a disappointment, and i am pbly his biggest supporter, fact is he has shown a worrying lack of adaptability in quite a lot of overseas tests now, hopefully he can improve this with time, but it limits his overall utility greatly. i dont see how he justifies being ahead of shadab for the last test.

    pak consistently lose because a lack of batsmen, and they need to be chopped and changed until pak can find three middle order batsmen.
     
  12. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Tracer Bullet

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Then good luck to our batters :p
     
  13. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Tracer Bullet

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Ind pacers bowling fast & furiously. Damn. How the tide has turned.
     
  14. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    Why not bring Sami back?

    Stupid PCB wasted this guys talent now we are stuck with medium pace lalu bowlers,
     
  15. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    Who cares, why do you have to be so insecure for?
     
  16. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Spare a thought for these bowlers who always bring Pakistan back into the game and keep them in the game overseas when our batting fails to get 200 in 3 innings out of 4. Atleast blame the right people and its not batsmen's fault either! These batsmen play 5 yrs in UAE where ball does not rise from knee high and in SA Aus when they go ball does not come below their heads!! It takes 3-4 innings atleast to get used to this bounce! Indian team became better when they started getting lots of games in away conditions whereas Pakistan is only invited for short series overseas or a series after 5 yrs!!
    @Passionate Pakistani
    We must play 2-3 side matches before playing a test series in conditions like these to help players get used to difference in conditions which is huge! Poor planning by PCB!
     
  17. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Tracer Bullet

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Wth are you waffling on about?

    Who cares? Check the results.

    Just admit for once that they are better.
     
  18. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    What Is that bowling action??????????????????????

    you tell me it’s a disgrace honestly and then the no aggression like get lost.
     
  19. Mohan
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    Mohan Formerly 'Captain Clutch'

    Nov 4, 2014
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    No they are not. Pissant Sharma is not better than Amir no matter how you twist it.
     
  20. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    Exactly no need to even bring India into this.
     
  21. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
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    What a dreadful statement by sarfraz. 2 matches were lost due to incredibly poor batting and the skipper has a go at the bowlers!
     
  22. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Tracer Bullet

    Dec 26, 2011
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    What? Who are tellingly to get lost?
     
  23. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Tracer Bullet

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Yup. Combo of both.
     
  24. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    I’m on about your Indian bowler friends how they bowl, lmao.

    Lol, I’m suprised how batsman doesn’t laugh when they bowl.

    Telling the Indian bowlers with no aggression to get lost, fast bowlers need to show aggression like Steyn.
     
  25. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Tracer Bullet

    Dec 11, 2010
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    We all know the batting is atrocious. The bowling is usually better than average.
    In 1st innings however, to give 430 away was bad bowling. Also bad captaining. Sarfraz is stating the obvious when he says Pakistan bowlers are slower however if he says the team lost the match because of them would be totally incorrect.

    The batting was horrible both innings. Bowling was bad in first innings. Team got outplayed in all depts which shows in the end result
     
  26. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
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    I understand that the bowling wasnt the best and conditions on day 1 obviously play a part.

    However when the side batting first is skittled out for under 200 and then the side batting second scores 400 then its reasonable to assume that the batting was at least 150 below par in the first innings.

    Pace is overrated. When abbas was bagging wickets for fun did sarfraz ever mention pace???
     
  27. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 16, 2010
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    The more he opens his mouth, the more of a laughing stock he becomes.

    I was completely baffled by his assessment.

    There was a poster here who expected our bowlers to bowl out SA under 40 runs in the fourth innings, and win the game. May be he is Sarfaraz Ahmed in disguise?
     
  28. BuccalSingh
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    BuccalSingh Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 21, 2016
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    Not sure why you mentioned Ishant here, he certainly is better than Amir (who is overrated) but even if ishant was playing for this Pak team, he would have brought no difference.
     
  29. Inswinger
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    Inswinger Tracer Bullet

    Mar 6, 2010
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    Our bowlers don't get the opportunity to bowl to a batting lineup the caliber of Pakistan's. Poor guys don't get a chance to pad their stats.
     
  30. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    Rather they get exposed and learn something than them thinking they are the greatest ever and then getting destroyed when it matters most, problem with Pak players is they don’t take some of their performance with a pinch of salt.
     
  31. pat
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    pat Youngsta Beauty

    Nov 25, 2018
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    some one can't get over almost 3 day inning defeat. LMAO.
     
  32. s_h_a_f
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    s_h_a_f Tracer Bullet

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Something that our bowlers lack..my original point before you went all insecure
     
  33. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Emerging Player

    Sep 1, 2010
    956
    I thought he made a fair point. We all know our problems with batting, it’s not rocket science. The batting is limited and even if they surpass all expectations, the most we can expect of them is around 300 - I.e second innings that just happened. That’s the ceiling of these jokers.

    But we need to stop deluding ourselves that our bowling is great and we’re only being held back by our batting.

    These are pitches that assist bowling, yet we conceded over 450 - that’s not on either. And the bowlers have to put more in.

    These guys are young bowlers, they are bowling within themselves like they are in their mid 30s. Look at steyn, he’s the one who’s in his mid 30s and has had a number of injury problems recently - yet he’s putting everything in to his bowling.

    Injuries are part and parcel of fast bowling, you can’t just keep bowling within yourself.

    Shoaib akhtar made a great point - look at Olivier - crap run up, crap action but delivery stride he puts everything in!

    One final point about yasir - yes these pitches are not suited to him but remember mushtaq, he always put a shift in on english, Australian and SA pitches. He won matches in SA, Aus and Eng. Yasir is amazing.....but only when everything is in his favour
     
  34. isaacking
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    isaacking Talented

    Jul 16, 2010
    2,093
    SA play with 4 seam bowler on pitches that supports them while Pakistan play with 2/3 seam bowler mostly on pitches where there is no help for seam.

    If only everyone of us remember this BIG POINT surely we will understand that the work load of our seamer is far great & to add to their problem our batting doesn't have the ability to score 250 in their first inning regularly, this mean that our seamer are not only over worked but dishearten too.

    Seam needs lots of support but the most important support they get is from the run scored by their batsmen. Great WI team use to bat out the opponent like wise the Australia of 90/2000.

    We want our bowlers to be fast than our batsmen need to learn to play cricket on fast track, Period.
     
  35. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Emerging Player

    Sep 1, 2010
    956
    I don’t quite understand this correlation. So do the bowlers say “screw you batsmen, we’re not putting anything in”? That’s a pretty poor attitude, and if any bowlers are doing this, they need to be dropped.

    The bowlers are currently not being overworked to the extent you’re saying. They were only overworked in this innings where they conceded 450+ - that was their own fault.

    Amir has had time out, he should be refreshed, Shaheen is a teenager, if he’s not enthusiastic to put everything in at this age, then when will he be? Abbas? Yes he’s coming back from injury, but we don’t have the luxury to ease anyone in. If he’s not 100% he shouldn’t be playing.
     
  36. BuccalSingh
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    BuccalSingh Youngsta Beauty

    Mar 21, 2016
    151
    What point did Sarf made which made any sense? He said that Pak pacers were too slow, this he came to know after all these years? they were all bowling with the same speed in UAE, why was he expecting anything different from them in SA?
    If he wanted pacy bowers, than he shouldn't have discarded Hassan who was pacier than the others, also Faheem bowls at a lot better pace than some other bowlers too, why wasn't he given a chance?
    Its true that Pak did not bowl well in second match, but its also true that bowling combination in both matches were dead wrong and Pak went with 1 bowler short as Yasir was a liability.
     
  37. isaacking
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    isaacking Talented

    Jul 16, 2010
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    U ignored the BIG POINT & wanna deliberate on the secondary one, fine by me.

    1 test against Aus, 2 & 3 test against NZ so out of 7 test this season they have worked like donkey in 4 test & out of those 4 test 3 were in UAE. Hope that will make my case.

    Issue with you is similar to Misbah & Safaraz that is to grind the fast to such an extent that their knees are not good enough for test. Happen with Junaid, same is happening with Amir forget that Misbah over bowled Ajmal.

    Pakistani captain don't know how use the best bowler. Till date Sunil G keep on stating that Imran use to bowl himself as an attacking option and never over used himself to pick 40 wicket on dead pitch
     
  38. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Emerging Player

    Sep 1, 2010
    956
    I think you’re getting upset over nothing - apologies if my last post seemed a bit abrupt.

    Now on to the topic at hand.

    Amir didn’t play any matches in the UAE, so how is he being bowled in to the ground?

    Shaheen played ONE match in the UAE

    Hasan only played the NZ series, and he’s not even playing in this match so not being discussed.

    Abbas played 4 matches and even when he did play he rarely bowled 20 overs in an innings. Ok so he’s coming back from injury, fine but even then I don’t think Sarfraz was targeting him because he is not the type of bowler to bowl quick anyway and imo shouldn’t have played anyway.

    So that leaves Amir and Shaheen - there’s no way anyone can argue they’ve been overbowled.

    You do realise imran, wasim, Waqar and co used to bowl 25 overs in a day, not an innings, not a match, a day.

    Wasim even said that him and Waqar train to bowl 25 overs in a day and if they’re not fit enough for that, they shouldn’t play.

    It’s laughable to think any of these guys are being overbowled
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  39. Sultan Yusuf
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    Sultan Yusuf Emerging Player

    Sep 1, 2010
    956
    I agree about Hasan - that was a poor decision to leave him out.

    Sarfraz’ comments are probably targeted at Amir who we all know can bowl up to 145ks and yet was bowling in the low 130s and then went in to the 120s. Surely Sarfraz can expect better than that? No? I’m not saying bowl 145 consistently, but hit the late 130s and low 140s with some regularity!

    Same with Shaheen to a lesser extent, he should have been up in the high 130s, low 140s more regularly.

    Also agree about Yasir. He shouldn’t have played. Passenger
     
  40. MNA
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    MNA Smooth Operator

    Mar 11, 2015
    3,077
    Its an obvious and forgone conclusion, our bowling is crap, so is our batting, so our fielding, captain, players and the coach. We are overall a test minnow and a 3-0 dribbling was always expected.

    The way Pakistan performed, batting or bowling, should not come as a surprise, the real surprising thing is why some people seem surprised at this unsurprising performance.
     

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