Wahab Riaz or Umar Gul in Tests ?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Markhor, Aug 19, 2010.

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  1. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
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    Should Riaz continue to perform fairly consistently,then should he replace Umar Gul as the 3rd pacer in the team or not ?

    The issues with Gul is that he's a bang-it-in bowler,relies on the conditions a bit too much and often pitches the ball too short.

    Whereas Riaz showed good control,was economical and when Gul was around,he would relieve the pressure created by Amir and Asif.

    However,on the other hand Gul does have plenty of Test match experience and Riaz is still fairly raw.

    Is Riaz a risk we should be taking ?

    IMO,IF he continues to perform,then yes he should replace Gul.Big if.
     
  2. zeenix
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    zeenix Administrator

    Dec 17, 2009
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    I think its always good to have bench strength. Specially with the fitness issues of our bowlers specially Gul. Hence he should be a permanant member of the side, and it would be a good competition.
     
  3. Yaser
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    Yaser Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 8, 2010
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    Both. Wahab has already surpassed most of the batsmen and Gul ws our leading scorer prior to his injury.


    Serious.
     
  4. Major
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    Major Cornered Tiger

    Apr 28, 2010
    12,549
    for rite now i would say wahab for test gul is an odi. But this was only 1 innings lets see wat does he do in the future
     
  5. sheikh
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    sheikh Emerging Player

    May 10, 2010
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    I disagree! I believe in a rotation policy! I believe our bowlers should be rotated to guard against the rigours of test cricket! Or maybe even play with 4 seamers!
     
  6. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
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    True say.Maybe Amir should be rested for the SA series in UAE,Asif is barred from there anyway so perhaps both Gul and Riaz,and also Tanvir Ahmed could play or be rotated.We have a history of bowlers picking up injuries.
     
  7. HuskerFan
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    HuskerFan Talented

    Jan 30, 2010
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    Only problem with rotation policy is that ..... if bowler takes 7-8 wickets in a test, would you drop him if it was his turn to be dropped???
     
  8. LBW
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    LBW Youngsta Beauty

    Jul 18, 2010
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    Umar Gul is in line for Captaincy in the next re-shuffle so its no question of him being replaced
     
  9. Gulli-boy
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    Gulli-boy Youngsta Beauty

    May 14, 2010
    49
    I really thought Wahab was pretty ordinary before when watching clips of him, but after yesterday I think he throughly deserves his place, he's got a good personality about him, right into the batsmen's face, done well as a nightwatchmen but hes bowling was awesome, good pace as well. He bowls quite similar to michael johnson and looks like that on some bad days he could potentially spray it around, but at the moment Gul deserves to be kicked out and Wahab should be the perfect number 3, easily removes the burden off Asif and Aamer. I'd want to see how he and ajmal bowl in the second innings because what we need is consistency from our 3rd and 4th bowlers which has been the most disappointment coming from Gul and Kaneria.
     
  10. sheikh
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    sheikh Emerging Player

    May 10, 2010
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    I guess not. It depends on how the bowler himself feels. I am sure one of the 3 pacers will be sort of tired and out of form. So I think there would be always space for rotation.
     
  11. Omar
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    Omar Cricistan Moderator

    Jan 27, 2010
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    Like Zeenix has said and I'll say it too that its always good to have some bench strength especially with Aamer who's still filling up in terms of physically and his body will be getting quite weary due to playing in all 3 forms of the game. If we can build up a good bench strength then a rotation policy would be really good to get guys like Wahab, Tanvir etc; to get a game or 2.
     
  12. HuskerFan
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    HuskerFan Talented

    Jan 30, 2010
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    Trust me, nobody is going to volunteer to be rested. Nobody ever has, nobody ever will because of the loss of test match fee and the fear of somebody taking their place because of performance.

    If the bowler is tired, then how the selectors, captain and coach will know?
    If he is out of form then, you are dropping him ... not rotating.... just playing on words!
     
  13. LBW
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    LBW Youngsta Beauty

    Jul 18, 2010
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    How about both with exclusion of Kamran and Yaseer Hammed to Keep wicket as well
     
  14. Major
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    Major Cornered Tiger

    Apr 28, 2010
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    That will be stupid, cause there is no such player who will harm themself. They know that if they wont be able to bowl, then they would be kicked out of the team, and wait till they he gets perfectly fit.
    Umar gul before the world t20 said that he was not gona play, as he was not 100 percent fit.

    let me guss Fitness test
     
  15. HuskerFan
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    HuskerFan Talented

    Jan 30, 2010
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    Did you read the OP and my reply carefully? We are talking about "rotation" policy.... player needing "rest" because of playing too much cricket.... not because of being "unfit" or "injured'.

    Name one bowler in the history on cricket who voluntarily sat out becuase he declared himself "tired"..... not "injured" or "unfit".... just "tired". But history of full of incidents when a player played already nursing an injury or by hiding an injury. Latest example..... Zoni admitted that his finger was injured before the test. Shoaib Akhtar declared himself fit on number of occasions when he was not.

    So, once again..... discussion is about voluntary or forced rotation policy so that player do not get injured and their body are well rested. Next question is.... how do you enforce this rotation policy???
     
  16. sheikh
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    sheikh Emerging Player

    May 10, 2010
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    Well another idea is resting the good players from certain matches such as against weaker sides. Give the bench a chance to play whilst resting players from your starting XI.

    The way things are going right now, I am afraid Amir will get a serious injury sooner or later. Something must be done.
     
  17. HuskerFan
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    HuskerFan Talented

    Jan 30, 2010
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    Yes, this is a good idea. India has rested their key players a lot of times against weaker teams.

    Great point. I am also concerned about the same thing. Now, the thing is ... he is performing very well. He has played 5 test s on the trot. If Pakistan wins this test because of Aamir then who is going to "rest" him for the final test because Pakistan will be looking to square the series. Who is going be to happy if Aamer is "rested" for the final test? I bet, even Aamer is going to want to play.
     
  18. sheikh
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    sheikh Emerging Player

    May 10, 2010
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    Well if we loose this test then the next test match would be a dead rubber. Hence certain players can rest there. I am sure there will be dead matches in the future where players can get a rest. Three formats is getting tough to play. We've gotta choose. odi or T20? whats your pick?
     
  19. HuskerFan
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    HuskerFan Talented

    Jan 30, 2010
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    Yeh, but then some people can argue 3-1 or 3-0 loss is better than 4-0 so, then you are still tempted to play your better team!

    I would keep T20 for commercial value and then test matches for its cricketing value.... if we have to get rid of one format.

    If we have to keep all three formats then you have to have separate teams otherwise players (specially fast bowlers) will get burn out and serious/permanent injuries. Just look at Indian pace bowlers, everybody is injured all the time this is because of the too many international matches, IPL, Champion League etc being played in too little time...... not forgetting the ecent casualties like Flintoff, Bond and Lee.
     
  20. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    this is a pleasant dilemma to have but i would say lets watch a few more gmaes and tehn decide on wahab riaz lets hope its not a one off performance....anyways i would like to c Aamer atleast getting rest in the next game he is playing in all formats and his workload is too much at this tender age. maybe we can rest Asif too and try out tanveer ahmed in next game too but i would have liked to see Irfan geting picked ahead of tanveer for thsi series ,,,bear in mind that Asif is not gona be avaiable for SA series as it is in Dubai Abu Dhabi so we need to prepare for that ....rite now Wahab looks very good prospect
     
  21. Aufhebung
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    Aufhebung Youngsta Beauty

    May 8, 2010
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    This is really surprising. No one is backing Gul ahead of Wahab. Wahab bowled well in suitable conditions and got wickets, but he is too inconsistent to be our third seamer. We already have Aamer who is an attacking bowler. Gul will be way more useful on harder tracks in Asia than Wahab. His fitness levels are better and he has much more skill than Wahab. Besides, Gul deserves to be given a longer run in the test side. He has performed regularly for us.
     
  22. Fallen King
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    Fallen King Banned

    Aug 9, 2010
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    Umar Gul never was Test specialist after he has adapted T20, and completely forgot about Test. It was obvious any Test specialist bowler was bound to bowl better than Gul. Good to see Wahab getting a chance to perform as he has continued performed for Pakistan A in almost everywhere, and really deserved recall.

    Umar Gul should stick only in limited cricket.
     
  23. Qazaa
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    Qazaa Youngsta Beauty

    Jan 20, 2010
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    Wahab has done nothing wrong to be losing his spot in the test side.

    Stick with the young gun. Also showed hes no mug with the bat.
     
  24. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

    Dec 17, 2009
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    I would pick Riaz for the next text. He has performed really well both with bat and ball and Gul should be given extented rest to prepare for the ODI's.
     
  25. HuskerFan
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    HuskerFan Talented

    Jan 30, 2010
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    If Gul is fit, team management is going to play him otherwise why would they have him go through fitness test? Salman Butt made a statement saying "hopefully Gul will be fit for the 4th test".
     
  26. sheikh
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    sheikh Emerging Player

    May 10, 2010
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    This is a crunch match! We need Umar Gul in the side. We need bowlers who make break throughs at crucial times when there isnt any assistance from pitch or swing !! Wahab got a 5-for when conditions were in his favour. When it wasnt in the second ininngs he struggled to get wickets. The only wicket he got was a fortunate down the leg side caught behind. Lucky I say. Not that I'm saying he shouldnt be in the team. We just need our best XI on the field thats all.
     
  27. Yaser
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    Yaser Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 8, 2010
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    Umar Gul in for his namesake Akmal, simple, and bowl Him if needs be.

    I want Gul to obliterate that irritating finn.

     
  28. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
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    Good to have bench-strength,we tend to rely on a few players too much.With a bit of competition,the regular player cannot afford to relax otherwise risk being dropped obviously.

    Also,with a extra couple of bowlers in the squad,regular players can be given a rest when necessary so that they are fit and fresh when the come back.

    So yeah,we can now afford to rotate the bowlers than rely on Asif and Amir all the time,they may well get injured with such a big workload.

    But,Gul isnt good enough for Tests,he bowls too short and struggles with his variations in the longer format.Rather keep him in the Limited Overs formats and groom Riaz.

    He gets in the batsmen's face,keeps up the pressure from Asif and Aamer by bowling aggressively and shows good control unlike Gul who RELIEVES the pressure.

    After all,Riaz could be a huge star for us in the future.Great find IMO.
     
  29. Qazaa
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    Qazaa Youngsta Beauty

    Jan 20, 2010
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    Here here Markhor!
     
  30. Yaser
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    Yaser Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 8, 2010
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    He's the only on capable of bowling huge spells without a seriously damaged economy. Yes, He has a knack of one really poor session, but then the next there'll be a wicket and very acute economy. If anything, He's of the very few bowlers who can go from 5.00 rpo to 1.20 rpo an its been like that all summer.

    Rao Iftikhar should have been in the squad as one who can bowl long spells, and unfortunately with Riaz, it appears that England didn't know him very well and aas often happens, lost their wickets to some fairly innocuous bowling - Cook in the second innings was another one, though the catalyst for the collapse - and in general was very poor in that second innings, throw in the Lord's slope and it's not boding well so far.

    He's certainly a player that has potential, and bar Aamir, very few have handled the slope well in their inaugural match there.

    As this was a crunch tie, I was quite serious that Gul be picked over Akmal Jr. and he's already dropped a catch - of which the cost will tell - and will meander to another meagre score of 35 with the token six off Swann. The way he took the plaudits off Aamir in the last game were typical of his nature - he was most likely to get out by playing a ridiculous shot whereas Aamir, as has been the case throughout the series, kept on blocking, wearing down Anderson, and bar the first ball scare, deflated England when their tails were very much wagging, not to mention his pressure relieving four!
     
  31. pakmufc
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    pakmufc Guest

    Well Wahab got the nod due to Gul not recovering (good move, no need to risk). Have to agree that if this does not give Gul a kick on the backside, then i dont know what will. A player can be chosen on experience or on merit. I would always back the form bowler. With Gul now knowing that he has competition he should up his game. Its only healthy having bench strength. I would rather the players have that mentality over them thinking their place in the team is secure!
     
  32. Markhor
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    Markhor Talented

    May 9, 2010
    2,701
    Absolutely.I liked Rao ! He's the sort of bowler who will run in all day without complaining.His attitude is infectious.Plus he took wickets and restricted runs,hence his nickname ''The Rao Constrictor''.Unfairly dropped.

    Today,Riaz unfortunately hasnt handled the slope well,really struggling with his line and theres not much in the pitch for the bowlers atm.

    Want the young lad to do well but its not going well for him on his Lords debut :(

    As for Akmal Jr,this might be for another thread but I disagree as travelling to Australia,England,Sri Lanka,New Zealand and South Africa right at the start of his career and having to carry the batting lineup on his shoulders is no easy task.But,the way he throws his wicket away really gets on my nerves !

    Mudassar Nazar kicked him out of the National Academy because he kept throwing his wicket away a few years ago.That actually spurred on Umar to be a better batsman.

    Waqar needs to be handed a stick and do the same.
     
  33. Yaser
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    Yaser Youngsta Beauty

    Apr 8, 2010
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    Gullay!
     
  34. zeenix
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    zeenix Administrator

    Dec 17, 2009
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    At least Umar Gul isn't on the suspect list, unlike Riaz who has gotten into controversy even before his career started.. The only thing saving him is that he wasn't required to do anything... But they say bucks were exchanged in the jacket. Talk about 007
     

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