Who is the bigger culprit of the game we lost today?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by Del, May 12, 2019.

  1. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    10,926
    First and foremost, its a disgrace to the game if more than 700 runs are scored in an ODI, regardless of conditions. I can understand the "entertainment" part but there needs to be some, at least some balance in between bat and ball.

    Coming on the game, I didnt watch the full game but I reckon Sarfraz made mistakes. When Harris bowled better than Yasir, then why he was used only for three overs?

    Yes, our best bowlers got some serious phainta, full credit to Buttler for this effort and 100, however, ENG bowlers also went for runs.

    The way Fakhar, Asif and Babar played, I think we had a good change to win this game. However, some serious questions should be raised on selection and ability of the following players.

    A) Imam, I mean seriously, what the heck were he thinking. You are chase freaking 374, how could you use 44 balls for your downright pathetic 35 runs SR@ of 79 with only 3 fours. if I exclude those 12 runs on three balls, then he actually made 23 runs on 41 balls - how on earth its acceptable?

    B) Faheem, I am sick of him now. This guy waste new ball, make sure to not take wickets and then flunk with the bat ALL THE TIME when his team needs him the most. Why is he even playing in limited over's team?

    C) Specialist captain - Sarfraz. I dont think he has been exposed this badly ever. When he came 61 was needed on 100 balls, what did he learn from PSL in all these years if he cant finish such games? He made 41 off 32 balls, which had two 4's. Meaning if I exclude 8 on 2 balls, then he actually made 24 on 39 balls - therefore, the end results was inevitable which happened in the end.

    In my book, above three are the biggest culprits of yesterday's game.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  2. Energy
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    Energy Cornered Tiger

    Apr 22, 2012
    10,364
    There was no way we could have chased the total because neither Asif, or Sarfaraz or Imad were looking in control. Yes, some slogs that Asif and Sarfaraz played worked for them but they kept missing deliveries every over which means they are poor batsmen and not capable of actually taking you over the line. The only positive in batting was Fakhar back amongst runs.

    The less said about the bowling the better. Hasan and Shaheen had a poor game and kept bowling in the slot. Opening with Faheem immediately sets you on the backfoot and you know he's not going to get wickets. So you're already looking to contain from the first over which is ridiculous. Add to that the tadka of Yasir Shah and haleem quickly turned into daal.

    We are going to change the philosophy of playing jaali all-rounders who offer nothing to the team.
     
  3. TaQvinaToR
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    TaQvinaToR Youngsta Beauty

    Sep 28, 2018
    55
    Get rid of Faheem Ashraf, not once this guy has performed with the bat. If you think he's a bowling all rounder then the coach and skipper have lost their mind. He needs to be replaced by Amir, I assume by the time we reach WC games, Shadab, Hafeez will be back and maybe ... maybe ... Asif, Yasir and Faheem will be out. Asif has fatigue issue and understanding the ball, He kept on slogging like a dummy, when the bowlers figured out that he cant play outside off stump yorker but he's still in a catch 22 situation, So lets hope he learns from his mistake.
     
  4. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Cornered Tiger

    Feb 21, 2010
    14,435
    Faheem. ConoleComp useless.

    Look at his recent averages...10 with the bat and 200odd with the ball.

    He is koterlite good for nothing, a waste of a spot. Just get Amir in there...better bowler and more useful with the bat.
     
  5. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Emerging Player

    Apr 16, 2010
    939
    I think we need a solid hitter in the lower middle order and obviously our best bet is Asif.

    He is still new and really hasn’t fully opened up to fully develop his game in the international arena.

    I think we should let him play as many games as we can WITHOUT telling him to play slow or play cautiously or play defensive etc.
    Just let him play his natural game to open his arms and develop that confidence, and that hand eye coordination where he won’t miss that many balls as he usually does.

    Imad should follow somewhat same steps but perhaps with a little less aggression.

    It’s mostly a batsmen’s game these days. Bowlers are bound to get spanked. You need hard hitting batsmen, and perhaps a good spinner.
     
  6. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Talented

    Nov 8, 2017
    1,248
    Faheem: agrer with you, he should be KICKED out of the team ASAP as he is, simply put, USELESS.

    Imam: he is s WYSIWYG player, anyone who expected him to do otherwise, is fooling himself.

    Sarfaraz: if he wants to waste deliveries "settling in" than he should bat in the top order.

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  7. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    I mean seriously, whats the point of playing Faheem, Imad and Yasir is beyond me (Imad because of his bowling). If these will continue to play, then we will consistently dist out 340+ total.

    These three share quote of 30 over with hardly 1/2 wickets, so what do we expect the other two bowlers to achieve in remaining 20 overs?

    And icing on the cake, we open bowling with Imad and Faheem, I mean seriously I want to know whats the thought process behind this moronic strategy? Who's brilliant idea is this in the first place? Other teams deploy their best bowlers to take advantage of new ball and we make sure to lose that advantage - only happens in Pakistan cricket ...
     
  8. mohsin88ali
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    mohsin88ali Talented

    Nov 8, 2017
    1,248
    Beats me....
    Hafeez can be justified to open the bowling but ONLY against lefties but Imad? Maybe if both openers are righties but NOT otherwise.
    Faheem: mindboggling decision to open with him.

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  9. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Emerging Player

    Apr 16, 2010
    939
    This is a good analysis.
    There is one minor exception IMO.

    I would not outright take Imad out of the opening attack.

    If the wicket is new and it has a little skid in the first few overs then Imad with a new ball is a potential wicket taker with a high probability of damaging the top order.

    But this pitch condition must be accurately read by the captain to name the team before the game, otherwise Imad’s bowling becomes a liability.

    Imad must also improve his batting. And I think that’s where the major problem is.

    I may be wrong but frankly speaking, there isn’t seem to be any true motivation or any serious will to improve that I could notice in his approach and in his appearance.

    It seems as if he thinks he has learned it all and it’s now time to enjoy the stardom.

    I really envy Kohli in this.
    His madness and hunger to improve just never seem to end. The amount of time he spends with a razor sharp focus on his fitness and game improvement is mind boggling.

    I think he is a true believer in the saying that,
    “Becoming number 1 is easy, but staying number is not.”
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  10. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Even over the years teams have worked out on Hafeez and regular lefties play him with caution (he can run rings around rookies with new ball who havent played him yet i.e. from WI etc), hence the most he can produce is a good eco spell, which doesn't serve the purpose (however, I will still pick him any day over Imad).

    In my book if you're NOT taking early wickets then you're pushing game away from you from the get go. Early wickets are vital for team like Pakistan who's batting is fragile.
     
  11. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Yes, I can understand but how many times have we seen it outside of asia? I havent at least.

    No question about it that he needs to enhance his skillset with bat, however, like many others he knows that his place is almost guaranteed, therefore, no incentive to work harder to learn further and overcome his shortcomings. And this is general mindset among Pakistani players - at one point in their carrier they start to believe that they've learned all, which is plain wrong. These days learning shouldn't stop in any aspect of life, let alone cricket. There is a reason why Ahmed Shahzad and U.Akmal are not part of national setup. And also, this mindset is another reason why we're scraping the bottom of the barrel - icing on the cake none of these guys are super talented/gifted player.
     
  12. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
    25,201
    I would say Imam, He made 150 at a SR of 115

    this pitch was where u have SR 150 easily

    he's a joke and we lost because of him and some bad bowling and horrible fielding
     
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  13. Don Quixote
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    Don Quixote Whispering Death

    Nov 13, 2015
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    Shaheen.


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  14. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    All bowlers except first spell of Junaid and second spell of Hassan.

    Also, drop catches hurt us really bad.
     
  15. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
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    I don't know how our bowling is rated? lol almost every time we bat first no matter what the score our bowlers just cannot defend. Luckily the only match where they did defend and won was champions trophy final.
     
  16. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Cornered Tiger

    Feb 21, 2010
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    Shaheen.

    Also looking at the England openers, Imams innings indeed looks below par in that pitch (but at least he scored).
     
  17. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Tracer Bullet

    Dec 11, 2010
    6,586
    Without him they would be out for 250...
    He was the only guy who stuck around and had a strike rate of 100ish from start.

    Fielding and horrible bowling lost the game. No idea how Faheem makes it to the team. Also, what on earth is Shaheen and Hassan bowling nowadays. Both can't bowl yorkers or slower ball bouncers.
    I think the offspin of Hafeez and legspin of Shadab is badly missed
     
  18. Mohammed Bilal
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    Mohammed Bilal Tracer Bullet

    Jul 17, 2017
    6,980
    Shaheen is all of a sudden bowling floaty crap, I'm annoyed at Azhar Mahmood. After one year in internationals I was expecting a mix of 143 kph minimum speed combined with both swings not some floaty crap.
     
  19. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
    10,926
    I am seriously questioning the role of our " video analyst" here.

    Do we even have a video analyst in the first place (@godzilla @ahmedwaqas92 @Savak) ?

    Did Azhar and that "video analyst" not show strengths and weakness of ENG batters to Shaheen, Hassan, Junaid, Imad and Faheem?

    Why our bowlers were feeding on the legs of Bairstow? Why our bowlers were hit for so many SIX straight? Does our video analyst know all these details?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  20. Passionate Pakistani
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    Passionate Pakistani The Don

    Jun 10, 2011
    68,094
    This Shahee bubble is bursting sooner than expected.

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  21. isaacking
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    isaacking Talented

    Jul 16, 2010
    2,212
    All bowlers are bowling crap and credit goes to Azhar. These same bowlers were bowling totally differently in PSL and with lot of success but they turn in for national side they bowl crap.

    Either the Psl coaches are better or Azhar is useless like flower.

    Azhar/mickey can't even ask imad to turn few to create doubt in batsmen mind. People will start playing him as slow medium who will bring the ball in and that will we end of his career and Pakistan hoped WC win.

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  22. Bilal123
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    Bilal123 Tracer Bullet

    Dec 11, 2010
    6,586
    I doubt they make use of video analysis.
    England is just so much better at these sort of things and have been for years. They do their research very well. Just look at the sky sports commentary vs ptv/geo. Sky sports is full of in depth analysis using videos and real stats etc. whereas ptv/geo have commentators who just talk rubbish with no analysis and just masala news.
     
  23. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
    2,592
    dude just admit it, its a mixture of talent disparity, management disparity, and these terrible, terrible pitches that have made a mockery of the game and turned it into baseball - thats it. we're just a crap side, no matter which way you cut it. I don't believe that replacing our video analyst with Englands would have made a slightest bit of difference.
     
  24. TaQvinaToR
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    TaQvinaToR Youngsta Beauty

    Sep 28, 2018
    55
    Its Azher Mehmood, he needs to be sacked and our sasta gora Grant Flower
     
  25. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

    Oct 8, 2014
    25,201
    lmaoo
     
  26. Energy
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    Energy Cornered Tiger

    Apr 22, 2012
    10,364
    The batsmen got away with it as 350+ on any track is a brilliant effort. The bowlers will need to take the entire blame for yesterday's loss.

    Average bowling, toothless hit-the-pitch stuff, no variation, leg side line and lengths. Absolutely mediocre bowling performance. And fielding is going to cost us badly. Lazy run out, easy catch dropped.
     
  27. isaacking
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    isaacking Talented

    Jul 16, 2010
    2,212
    Issue is no one was even interested in pitching it up and find out will it swing.

    Azhar has played on these type of pitches and want bowlers to try and seam it but it's not working. Azhar has no game plan and he is nightmare of a coach to left arm bowlers.

    Pakistan is famous for pitch it up and go for wicket hope that someone informs the coach and team about it.



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  28. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Emerging Player

    Apr 16, 2010
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    We lost due to weaker batsmen.

    Imagine the quality of the pitch and lack of batting mojo, when a crappy batting line like Pakistan scores 350+ then this was a 450+ runs wicket.

    Bowlers are mere pawns in modern day cricket.
     
  29. KingOfDoosra
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    KingOfDoosra Sultan of Swing

    Jun 8, 2012
    17,030
    I don't think Azhar Mahmood is to be blamed

    Waqar Younis said he was watching the bowlers train before the game and they were bowling fine. Change of pace, yorkers, variations, different slower balls, correct lines and length, everything was there.

    Once the match started, everything seemed to fall apart - zero execution of plans.
     
  30. Mohsin
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    Mohsin Cornered Tiger

    Feb 21, 2010
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    The only thing I can think of is that he is taking it easy before the WC. No point (God forbid) getting injured in a series before the main tourney.

    2 weeks tomorrow is when the real judgement should begin.
     
  31. isaacking
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    isaacking Talented

    Jul 16, 2010
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    If bowler are not following plans then who is to be blame?


    Azhar Mahmood

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  32. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    We certainly lost the momentum in last 10 overs, otherwise we should be close to 400.

    However, on contrary, when Woakes can send back our two best batsmen on score of 25 within 5 overs, then you know you have serious issue with your bowling. Culprits are bowlers and those who dropped catches. You can only dream to win games against big boys if you dont hold on to your catches.
     
  33. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    I believe I always acknowledge all these factors, but one aspect which not many talk about here is "video analyst". Why other teams like ENG, AUS etc workout on our players after 2/3 games and we're unable to catch their flaws even after a whole series? Its it speaks volumes in my book.

    Gone are those days when you used to train in nets to horn your skills and win games. Players need to have sessions with bowling coach and video analyst on every single player to identify how to trap him - this aspect looks missing to me.
     
  34. ShokoTolo_LoloMoto
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    ShokoTolo_LoloMoto Emerging Player

    Apr 16, 2010
    939
    Baseball?
    Are you insane?

    Baseball has A LOT A MORE uncertainty at every pitch than in cricket.
    The game is A LOT more balanced between the pitchers and the hitter.

    People jump out of their seats and pump the air in joy, and the commentators scream in true and genuine excitement when a home run is hit.
    (That's a usually a minimum of 120 meters hit in cricket terms.)

    And here in freaking modern day cricket, especially in the T20's, fans yawn at six after six after six after four after six when miss-hits land for sixes in a 60 meter boundary.

    I've found many, many baseball games A LOT more exciting than many, many T20 games.
     
  35. Energy
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    Energy Cornered Tiger

    Apr 22, 2012
    10,364
    Agreed. Blaming Mahmood or Arthur or Inzi is the easy way out. Its the boys and skipper on the pitch that matters.

    Overall laziness cost us the match. Laziness in running. Laziness in catching. There was a moment when Imad was furious at one of the leg glance fielders for not being on the boundary when the batsman crossed showing absolute lack of match awareness. We can't hide the fact that our players lose focus easily.
     
  36. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Its blend of multiple issues, laziness (as you said), lack of match awareness, lower middle order failure, completed bowling failure and dropping catches.
     
  37. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Excellent analyst by Rashid. He said exactly what I was pointing out - role of "video analyst"
     
  38. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    If we lose today then culprits is Shaheen, dont think he'll make in the final XI.
     
  39. Del
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    Del Cornered Tiger

    Dec 21, 2016
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    Got humiliated against WI in the first game, blame has to go to batsmen - top 6 !

    These clowns dont deserve to be part of this prestige tournament.
     
  40. saiyan0321
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    saiyan0321 Whispering Death

    Oct 5, 2014
    9,993
    Everybody. There are some games where you just can't excuse any player. They all must be blamed. From the top 6 batting to the batting of our lower order to the batting of our bowlers ( completely unacceptable in modern day where even a number 11 avgs 15) and then even the bowling. Remember they chased the 105 in 13.4 overs. The run rate is absolutely pathetic. We couldn't even choke them to weaken their NRR.
     

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