You are not an Indian - Indian Parliament

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Disco Lemonade, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

    Dec 17, 2009
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    So I guess it is mostly for refugees settled in India trying to get Indian citizenship. The Indian Parliament have just decided that the Muslim refugees can't do that, sorry.
    Rather than going into the justifications, I would like to point out to our Indian friends, itna to hum bhi nahi giray thay bhai. We termed qadyanis non muslims, we still never thought of calling them non Pakistanis.
    Watershed moment for the New India after Kashmir?
     
  2. Disco Lemonade
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    The more troubling aspect of all this is, how will the Muslims of India react to this after all. They could brush off Kashmir as a political issue, they can smile on the babri mosque verdict a judicial issue, but how do they escape THIS? Without any malice intent, I really feel for them.
     
  3. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

    Nov 25, 2018
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    not sure why you are worked up. This bill (not alaw yet) does not discriminate against Indian citizens, be them muslims, hindus or xtians or buddhists or Jains or zorastrians etc etc.

    This only limits who can get new citizenship and eliminates those who and whose ancestors fought for partition. Too bad fro them if they don't like what their country has become.
     
  4. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

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    pat

    Why was there a need to discriminate on the basis of religion, anyway?
     
  5. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    That is the burden of history. Allama/MAJ declared muslims cannot live among hindus. The muslims from west and east pakistan don't get to move back into India becos life is too hard in their promised land..

    Before you bring up persecuted sects like ahmadias, they led the fight for partition. too bad for them if it that didn't work out. they are not India's responsibility.
     
  6. Disco Lemonade
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    ahh i see. so i guess it is among the same measure the current indian govt. is trying to Right the burdens of history. Correction of kashmir, correction of babri masjid land. correction of citizenship laws. correction of taj mahal is next i suppose. correction of indian history.
     
  7. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    1) babri majid/ram mandir lafda is plain idiocy and a utter waste of time

    This CAB business is serious. Illegal immigration from East pakistan needs to be dealt with.

    Persecuted minorities should be welcomed. Persecuted muslims in pakistan (west and east), regardless not so much. they got what they wanted. Sucks for them if they don't like it.
     
  8. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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  9. Patriot
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    Patriot Kaptaan

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    literally no Pakistani say that, literally no one
     
  10. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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  11. ASLI-PATHAN
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    ASLI-PATHAN Cricistan Khan

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    Only a mad Non Indian Muslim who go to India to apply for citizenship there. So who cares?
     
  12. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    Nails it.

    It is weird hearing all this whining about this bill.

    Statement A: India is a horrible place for muslims

    Statement B: OMG! They are not allowing illegal muslim migrants to become Indian citizens!

    Pick one and stick with it!
     
  13. Mycroft Holmes
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    Wouldnt it be hilarious if a future policy change revokes Adnan Samis citizenship!
    Thatd make me chuckle.
     
  14. Mycroft Holmes
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    Patricia, your arguments dont hold any water. India went down a secular path, it trumpeted its democratic credentials and told anyone that'd listen they had more Muslims in india than Pakistan.... now Patricia at cretins like him are distorting history out of context and all recognition to justify fascism.
     
  15. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    Meh. Indian secularism has been making exceptions for muslims forever now. Personal law board, shahbano case etc etc.
     
  16. Mycroft Holmes
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    What a cretin. Your response is void of all logic. With secularism you dont make exceptions Patricia, you either live by those ideas or you dont... in which case stop telling the world about your secular democratic credentials.

    Is that split personality kicking in again Patricia?
     
  17. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    Guess you have comprehension issues. Kongress/Indian government has been handing freebies to muslims in the past , in spite of being secular. No one questioned or complained about India's secularism when muslims were allowed polygamy or didn't have to pay alimony.

    Deny citizenship to illegal muslims from Pak (west and east), all hell breaks loose. The only cretin here is you.
     
  18. Mycroft Holmes
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    No patricia, no comprehension issues.. They could hand 'freebies' out like they're willy wonka... your false equivalences dont make the foggiest difference. The act of deliberately discriminating based on religious beliefs is contrary to secular and democratic ideals.
    Even for someone that has multiple personalities, its a tough stretch.
    Im not here to justify pak actions patricia, no need to try and muddy the waters.
     
  19. Mycroft Holmes
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    Simple question.
    Is india denying rights based on religion? It doesnt matter wether some of these people are indians or not. This is a discriminatory policy.


    YES.

    Unless patricia you are arguing that india doesn't abide by secular or democratic norms and is full of shit by claiming it does.
    so pick your poison patricia.
    Ps, im not making fun of your mental illness.. im merely pointing out you are mentally unwell. I knew a mentally ill guy who thought he was an Israeli once... poor guy.
     
  20. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    1) Isn't that obvious? Yes it is and I have acknowledged it. Haven't I? Oh I forgot you are a dumb cretin.

    2) This is not new for the Indian government. It has screwed hindus before. You don't care becos you are a dumb cretin.

    3) Secularism is reserved for the citizens who come under the countries law not for illegal immigrants. I though that was obvious. then again you are a dumb cretin who excuses murders in the name of islam (charlie hebdo incident)
     
  21. Mycroft Holmes
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    What a derranged idiot. The moron has made the assertion that secularism is reserved for the citizens. The statement of india has made it clear that its discriminating based on religion... yet Patricia is insisting views to the contrary.
    'india is a secular state but it openly discriminates against muslims based solely on their religion'
    secularism... lite by patricia.
     
  22. Mycroft Holmes
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    ignore Patricia he/she is unwell.
    Ignore garbage sources,
    https://www.ft.com/content/8e5bf5a2-1c34-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

    most reputable sources quite clearly identify this bill/ law as an affront to secularism by a far right hindu state

    Ohh and Patricia, where have i justified the Charlie Hebdob attacks? Quote me. Or did the voices in your head tell you:D
     
  23. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    FT. the most reputable source Thats is comedy gold right there

    Regarding Charlie hebdo massacre, you posted that they had it coming for provoking islam

    You are a dumb terrorism supporting cretin!

    https://cricistan.com/threads/charlie-hebdo-massacre-paris-12-dead.35226/

    Well what do these guys think was going to happen? They invited this mess. They deliberately antagonise muslims for a few cheap sales under the guise of 'freedom of expression'. While most of us reasonable individuals understand such cheap ploys they hope that they can antagonise enough lunatic in france to play the martyr card. Most of the time they are happy that some 'third world peasants' are flipping out burning shit in far distant lands but occasionally they hit a home run with these idiots.
    Lets look at this magazine for example. Have they ever printed a stereotyped image of a bignosed jew clutching gold money etc? No they didnt. They (im not sure if its this paper or some other) would endorse printing a picture of the 'prophet' with a bomb for a hat. But hey maligning an entire group of people as terrorists is just satire and freedom of expression right?
    Im sorry but im indifferent to this mess.
     
  24. Mycroft Holmes
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    ohh patricia, im assuming its patricia im talking to and not one of your split personalities...
    Now Patricia where did i excuse murder there? :D
    When i called the attackers lunatics? :rolleyes: Charlie Hebdo are shock journalists deliberately perpetuate racist tropes under the guise of free speech. So yeah i criticised them.
    Poor patricia clutching those straws

    The world of patricia people..
    Hindu fascists deliberately promoting policies discriminating against a particular group is secular.
    Calling terrorists lunatics is supporting them...
    ohh patricia.
     
  25. Mycroft Holmes
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  26. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

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    For no apparent reason, India trying to shoot itself on the foot.

    Protests across India over the bill. Good to see sanity is still available in India.
    They accepted kashmir and babri mosque verdict with no opposition.
     
  27. Mycroft Holmes
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    in isolation you can be cynical enough to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is a sustained pattern of behaviour.
     
  28. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    Blah. it helps to have a clue. Protests are in 3 places.

    1) Assam: The want all illegal immigrants out not just muslims. For assam CAB was not tough enough.

    2) West Bengal: in districts bordering east pakistan, by the illegal immigrants

    3) Delhi: By muslim university students, incited by a muslim politician: amanullah Khan of AAP.
     
  29. Mycroft Holmes
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  30. godzilla
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    Something I found online:


    *Are you still confused about the CAB/NRC protests? Here's a quick write-up explaining them:*

    The CAB or Citizenship Amendment Bill (now Act) says that illegal immigrants from all religions, EXCEPT Muslims will be allowed citizenship of India. (Which is against Art 14&15 of Constitution).

    Amit Shah has also announced that very soon they will bring National Register of Citizenship (NRC) all over India. Which means that every citizen of India will have to PROVE that they are actually citizens and not illegal immigrants using documentary evidence. How will they prove this? Not using ID cards or tax slips but by tracing ancestry using documents - prove legacy and also linkage to the legacy. Govt will set up a cut off year and we will have to prove that our ancestors lived/owned property or were born in India before that cut off year and our connection with the ancestor. (That’s what happened in Assam)

    This stage will be most difficult because documents in India aren’t kept safely and it’s almost impossible to get 60-year-old documents – some burnt in fires, some lost in floods, some just not traceable. Imagine someone who's grandparents was an anghoota-chap and didn't bother about documents back then? They are now 'illegal immigrants' because they don't have documents. Doesn't matter if you're born in India or pay taxes.

    Here’s where the combination of CAB and NRC comes into play.

    If you’re Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Jain, etc and can’t find documents, you become illegal immigrant under NRC but because of CAB you can ask for citizenship. BUT… if you are Muslim, you lose land rights and voting rights immediately. Now you are property-less, vote-less and country-less. Where do you live? Well, govt will be constructing detention camps (look up the camps in Assam, you’ll cry). Also, can’t get jobs or go to other countries because you are now passport-less.

    All-Hail New India
     
  31. Disco Lemonade
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    Disco Lemonade Design Artist

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    I think the purpose is to officially make hindus the first rate citizens meanwhile muslims etc can be made 2nd grade citizens. obviously they cannot ask them to leave india.
     
  32. godzilla
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    He is trying to replicate Israel but on an obviously massive scale. I don’t think it will ultimately work, I don’t think there is enough fascists in the country; by nature I think the Indian ethnicity is too docile to be this inhuman.
     
  33. Disco Lemonade
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    They are not inhumane but its upto their parliament, which can pass it.

    I have cousins and relatives who are indian muslims and are mostly apolitical and nationalist. But since last 2 days, i can see their social media being quite vocal about it. I think people can finally see the pattern.
    first they made them immune to bash pakistanis.
    then created an atmosphere around kashmiris.
    finally locked kashmiris.
    now they are pushing the illegal muslims out.
    so on and so forth.
     
  34. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

    Nov 25, 2018
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    Maybe the muslim refugees can move to china. China has the money to support refugees unlike piss poor india. They even have the infrastructure ready to go. Bangladesh and Burma has a good relationship with china and pak is a keen ally of china. So it should work out.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...07b12a-b280-11e9-acc8-1d847bacca73_story.html

    China celebrates ‘very happy lives’ in Xinjiang, after detaining 1 million Uighurs

    BEIJING — The Chinese government on Tuesday declared its campaign of control and repression in the majority-Muslim region of Xinjiang to be a resounding success, claiming that almost all of those detained in internment camps had been released and were now “living very happy lives.”
     
  35. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    To get back to the OP's title

    Yes, pak (east or west) muslims are not Indian and should never be allowed to get Indian citizenship.
     
  36. godzilla
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    godzilla Smooth Operator

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    this is genuine comment that is doing the rounds now. its not looking good, and it seems modi is significantly worse than we all imagine outside the country. it looks like he is indeed the new hitler, and ironically appears to be continuing Netanyahu's muslim extermination and dehmanisation policy to a far greater scale:

    Good morning,

    It has been some time since I have written with my news and updates. I write from Lucknow, the capital of the largest state in India, which has been in the grip of protests over Citizenship Amendment Act recently passed by parliament. I have called this law ‘India’s Nuremberg Moment’ and have been involved in organising protests and now help for various detainees and political prisoners. I copy an article that I have written about this below. Most print publications didnt want to carry it so eventually I put it on my TImes of India blog.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...enship-amendment-act-indias-nuremberg-moment/

    A huge protest was organised by various civil society activists on the 19th of December. Protestors from every religion came out against the BJP’s new citizenship law that discrimnates against Muslims on the basis of religion. Since then, the police has gone on a rampage in our state and they shut down the internet 5 days ago. It is back on now but news is slowly trickling in of the police’s mass brutality. They have been going into peoples houses in midnight raids, arresting people as young as 14 and even those with mental illness’ and in a number of cities they have fired on peaceful protestors and many of been killed by gunshot. I went to the funeral of one such young man, Mohammad Wakeel, who died because of gunshot. He was not even a protestor but was carrying vegetables home to his seven month pregnant wife. They live in rented accomodation and he was the only breadwinner. In another town Kanpur they shot a boy who was washing dishes by the side of the road. Students from Jamia and Aligarh have been attacked and in some cases both faculty and students have suffered life changing injuries. Women have been at the forefront of many of these protests. The stories of police brutalities are endless. More people have died in my state in the past two weeks than did when the Chinese State killed during the Hong Kong protests over many months. And we claim to be the largest democracy in the world!

    I often think about Hannah Arendt’s phrase about the banality of evil. So many good people I know have supported and voted for the BJP and justified their rise. Perhaps they couldnt see what many of us did: that the ruling dispensation has thought about nothing other than making India a Hindu Republic for the past 100 years of more. Arendt’s writing are I think now more relevant than ever. Our PM speaks in platitudes about an inclusive India but recently he made a snide comment about recognising protestors through their clothes: Hijabs and Skullcaps. One of his party members worships Gandhi’s assasin and another said he needed the nod from the PM and he would wipe out the Muslim sfrom India.

    I shall try and write more regularly but the situation here is bad. The international press coverage has certainly damepened the courage of the BJP but by now they are brazen. Kashmir sums up this tragedy. They have been cut off from the world for more than four months. Their leaders are in jail and business’ have suffered losses of more than a billion dollars. The use of brute force by the police everywhere has made people frightened but I think perhaps the BJP knows they are now playing with fire. Perhaps the protests will turn into something similar to the civil rights movement, as my brother says. But this needs clear and uncorrupted leadership. Unfortunately, or fortunately rather, many of the Muslim leaders- particularly those who are clerics- have been exposed as nothing more than ciphers of the ruling party. They have lost credibility so perhaps a new leadership will emerge. The youth are raising their voices against these Sarkari (official) Muslims- Uncle Toms if you will- and they do not want to be used as pawns in their games anymore. If you would like more details on what is happening in India I can email you. Please do spread the word about what is happening in India.

    In other news, I am still teaching at Ashoka University but now am also a member of the Samajwadi Party in Uttar Pradesh. My first book, ‘Poetry of Belonging: Muslim Imaginings of India 1850-1950’ is being published by Oxford University Press and will be out early next year. I suppose the topic will be of interest because with this most recent law, the BJP has again questioned whether Muslims can or are able to be loyal to India.
     
  37. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

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    Indians have revolted against controversial Citizenship Act and against Modi govt. Young 17 yr old and 19 yr old boys and girls are singing Habib Jaleeb and Faiz poems!!



    @Del @SwingNSeam

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2019
  38. pat
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    pat Emerging Player

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    Meh. what a drama queen. All this over a law which doesn't affect Indian citizens and strictly deals with illegal migrants.

    Wonder where this idiot was when the previous govt was proposing religious quotas fro jobs and education.
     
  39. godzilla
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    meh. what a drama queen.


    Modi_Hitler.jpg
     
  40. Mycroft Holmes
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