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Your thoughts - Nasir Jamshed's selection in Tests/ODIs in foreign conditions?

Discussion in 'Cricket Talk' started by SOPL, Apr 15, 2014.

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  1. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    One notion that seems to have acquired momentum is the accusations that Nasir Jamshed is merely a FTB (with his 3 consecutive ODI hundreds against India being cited as evidence) and subsequently, not deserving of selection as a Test opener in foreign conditions (Australia, England, New Zealand).

    But, my question is: is this belief justified?

    Since his return against Bangaldesh in the 2012 edition of the Asia Cup, Jamshed has scored 1030 runs at a batting average of 34.33 from 31 ODIs.

    Merely acceptable figures on their own but one must not forget his sudden drop in form after the 2013 Champions Trophy against the West Indies - where his average dropped from 46.06 (inclusive of his 50 in that ODI) to 34.33 in a matter of 14 ODIs (a run of form in which he obtained the atrocious average of 20.92, with only one 50 - which actually came at the beginning of that particular run of games).

    And before you make the incorrect inference, I'm not blaming Misbah-Ul-Haq's comments about Nasir Jamshed being somewhat responsible for their loss in that game for his colossal period of failure afterwards (because I think that if you don't have enough mental toughness to take criticism from your captain, you shouldn't really be on the international circuit) - although I believe it did have some sort of effect (which I believe it acceptable considering one doesn't expect their own captain to castigate them after they have performed decently, particularly in light of all of the rest of the specialist batsmen failing).

    Therefore, you may ask: on what basis do I make my claim that Nasir Jamshed deserves to be selected in Tests abroad once he returns to form (which I believe, for a player who exudes such elegance and class, is only imminent)?

    According to most people, the only team against which Nasir Jamshed has performed is India; scoring 3 centuries against the arch-rivals (thus labelling him an Indian-basher/FTB). Truthfully, upon paper it seems that this is true but his first century during the India tour (at Chennai) was scored when Bhuvneshwar Kumar was swinging the new ball quite prominently but even I can't deny that at least one of those centuries wasn't too great given the extremely flat pitch on offer - his 100 against India during the 2012 Asia Cup match at Dhaka, Bangladesh.

    [​IMG]

    However, what can't be denied is that Jamshed has an abundance of talent (in terms of strokeplay and sheer elegance) and his hunger/ability to score centuries is unparalleled in the Pakistan team - by any batsman.

    Besides, I harbour the opinion that Jamshed's centuries against India weren't his only notable performances on the international stage - his 97 against Australia at Abu Dhabi is regularly forgotten, along with his magnificent 50 against the West Indies during the 2013 Champions Trophy and his 46 on Test debut.

    Although his 97 was indeed scored on an absolute pancake, his two other knocks certainly weren't. In a match where the rest of the batsmen apart from Nasir Jamshed and Misbah-Ul-Haq failed, he helped Pakistan to recover in difficult batting conditions (in which the West Indian bowlers were seaming/swing the new ball and continued to seam it for the rest of the game) - until unfortunately he threw it away trying to hit Sunil Narine for six, after scoring a well-played 50.

    http://www.cricshare.in/champions-tr....html#tabs-2-1

    Again, during the first Test against South Africa at Johannesburg in 2013 - on Test debut might I add, he scored 46 until he yet again threw it away - this time being late hooking a short delivery from Dale Steyn. After seeing the utter capitulation for 49 by Pakistan in the first innings, I believe this performance is actually worthy. There were some especially sumptuous drives during this innings.

    http://tune.pk/video/33062/nasir-jam...3-mymu-cricket

    Now, you may state: these are only two performances you've mentioned on foreign soil (but it is worth noting that is extremely unfair to label him an FTB considering his only Test series was against South Africa in South Africa, when Dale Steyn was in full flow upon pitches he probably has never seen the likes of). Admittedly, that is true and I don't have much other evidence to firmly assert that Nasir Jamshed should become our permanent Test opener once he has reclaimed his form - apart from one important factor. That is his application and hunger to score runs and his excellent technique - especially when compared to the current openers in the team. His huge loss of form was more mental than anything else.

    Ahmed Shehzad has a technique with which he can survive (although he needs to rectify his problems against spin bowlers) but believe me, if we continue with Khurram Manzoor on foreign, seaming pitches he will fail immediately - his technique isn't of the sufficient quality.

    By the way, not to be negative but both Ahmed Shehzad and Khurram Manzoor probably lack the ability to score at a quick rate which Jamshed is able to do - Shehzad wouldn't be able to do it on spinning pitches (yet) and Khurram Manzoor wouldn't be able to do it regardless of conditions given he is too scratchy of a player.

    To conclude, Nasir Jamshed should only in ODIs and Tests and definitely not T20Is - where fitness and fielding is of utmost importance.
     
  2. CricketFan96
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    CricketFan96 Smooth Operator

    Aug 4, 2012
    4,860
    Very good write up.

    Though he deserves to play all formats of the game, If the likes of Kamran Akmal, Shoaib Malik cement a spot in t20s why can Jamshed not? His fitness/fielding aside he has hit 360 runs in only 18 matches in t20i's with two fifties. Also I don't see a better replacement for him in t20's. He can get you the runs and thats what you want in a t20. Sharjeel is also not the best of fielders and certainly not the better batsmen. He should be given chances in the further tours for all formats, he and Shehzad in the world cup is the last you want. He is pretty good in Australian/NZ/foreign conditions.
     
  3. SwingNSeam
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    SwingNSeam Boom Boom

    Sep 12, 2010
    24,681
    Looking at recent performances over a decent period of time is important in determining how beneficial or detrimental a player is going to be for the team.

    With his current form I don't want to see him in the team. We can't have in the team based on past performances..that's the same mistake the selectors are doing with Gilchrist akmal and Garfield Malik.

    As far as foreign conditions are concerned..if he can't score at the domestic/ local level/condition then wth is he gonna do over seas?

    I rather try someone new instead if that's the case.

    Also, I'd like to see the free flowing jamshed back rather than this hack who's trying to tuk everything to save his spot in the team..and failing at that too. Ast/
     
  4. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    great write up yaar!!
     
  5. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    Was rightly dropped. Should only come back with strong domestic performances over a period of time to back him. Needs to work on his technique and fitness.
     
  6. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    i know for sure he will comeback with a bang as soon as he is selected he will score big time as the hunger for runs would have returned!!
     
  7. ComradeVenom
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    ComradeVenom Tracer Bullet

    Jul 24, 2012
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    I find it strange how when a player is successful at home rather than laud and praise him we accuse him of being an FTB.

    Using the current definition of FTB the majority of ex Pakistani batsmen fall into this category of player.

    Nasir has the potential for becoming a decent player but it is highly unlikely that he will set the world on fire away from home. Lets not expect too much.
     
  8. ElRaja
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    ElRaja Talented

    Jan 12, 2013
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    SOPL was wondering how you justify this claim

    if anything his inability to improve his physical fitness despite continually being dismissed whilst settled due to mental or physical fatigue doesnt hint at as much.

    he is mentally a bit scatty, and his physicality, or lack of, harks back to the days of semi-pro sport. hes a decent talent, but his mental and physical weaknesses holds him back significantly. shehzad and jamshed both went through a horror patch but shehzad managed to pull through, jamshed was on the verge of getting dropped from his domestic slot.

    given the lack of first class cricket until the sl series dont think he'll be back anytime soon. maybe against nz in uae if he does well in domestic.
     
  9. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    With the results of T20I matches virtually being decided by a matter of a few runs (particularly salient given the insignificant number of overs - a mere 20 for each team), fielding is of utmost importance. A few misfields or even a lone one could potentially be the difference between a victory and a demoralising loss.

    In addition, it must be noted that Nasir Jamshed doesn't exactly possess the greatest of strike-rates in T20Is (it is a measly 113.43) - a format where a batsman's strike-rate is arguably equivalent in importance to his average, perhaps more so even. Sometimes statistics can be misleading but I believe in Jamshed's case this strike-rate is an indication of his poor fitness levels.

    Besides, I'd rather not Jamshed waste his talent in the T20I arena and resort to playing ugly, predemitated strokes across the line that some of our recent batsmen have the tendency to do. He has a stroke-making ability which is somewhat pleasing upon the eye.
     
  10. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    Pakistan never needs gud fielders. All we need is gud decent batsmen which Nasir is. i dont care if he gives away 10 runs in the field if he is hitting a 50 in a t20 match. he is doing his job which is to bat!!
     
  11. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
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    My point was more about his potential to score in foreign conditions rather than him making a comeback to the international team promptly.

    In my opinion, he should score heavily in First-Class cricket once he regains his confidence (and thus his fluency) because his problem was more of a mental issue than any real technical batting deficiencies.

    I agree that he needs to display a firm improvement in his fitness levels how - that is vital to his return to the international team by the beginning of the 2015 World Cup (Sharjeel Khan will not last long on the seaming/bouncy wickets of Australia/New Zealand).
     
  12. iAd
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    iAd Sultan of Swing

    Nov 9, 2012
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    Don't think Jamshed will last on foreign pitches.
     
  13. Don Corleone
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    Don Corleone Kaptaan

    Jul 20, 2012
    29,471
    Catches win matches. The chances the bowlers creates, who are supposed to take them? The fielders.

    Dont need good fielders you say....... cant have a bunch of headless chickens running around. That will probably cost you more runs that what those decent batters are gonna make for you.
     
  14. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
    2,706
    I partially echo your sentiments within this thread but it is worth noting that the application of the FTB tag is wholly justified when a player performs prodigiously solely at home but fails miserably away.

    Scoring at home should definitely be lauded instead of the player be castigated for it but scoring on the graveyard pitches of Pakistan/UAE (where the pitches haven't even been in favour of spin bowlers in recent times) shouldn't be praised excessively.

    Maybe, maybe not.

    I still believe Jamshed will score a few magical centuries abroad. Just my opinion.
     
  15. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
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    Just because Pakistan is a terrible fielding side doesn't necessarily mean they needn't improve. In this day and age, fielding and fitness standards are of great importance to a side's success.

    Besides, if fielding wasn't significant, why is everybody against Kamran Akmal's selection?

    Undermining the importance of fielding is puerile logic.
     
  16. SOPL
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    SOPL Talented

    Jun 4, 2013
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    This all boils down to one's personal opinion but I believe he will.

    He scored a meaningful 46 against South Africa in South Africa during the 1st Test at Johannesburg, and subsequently followed up by scoring 50 and 42 against West Indies and South Africa respectively in the 2013 Champions Trophy - both of which were in seaming conditions.

    Moreover, he has an acceptable technique against fast bowlers - particularly the ability to pull/drive the ball with ease.
     
  17. Top Spinner
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    Top Spinner Tracer Bullet

    Feb 27, 2013
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    Pakistan will gladly accept any decent batsman even if he is an ATG FTB,but unfortunately that is not the case,all youngsters are mid thirtees average batsman & the the overall 6th ranking of the team shows that..
     
  18. Ahson8
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    Ahson8 Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Jun 9, 2012
    18,596
    Shehzad, U. Akmal and Alam have a lot of potential.
    Of the even younger crop Sami Aslam, Babar Azam and Imam ul Haq look very good prospects.
     
  19. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

    Sep 21, 2012
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    He has absolutely lost it. He hasn't even gotten runs in domestic lately. I believe he got out in single digits in most of his innings, after being dropped internationally. In the FBT20, I believe that other than one knock, he looked absolutely out of touch and in no form whatsoever.

    Early on, he looked pretty good, but bowlers worked on his weaknesses, and he didn't improve at all. Now they're all over him. He also struggles against quality spin, and this has always been a weakness for him. Nowadays, he's so shot that even mediocre off-spinners get him with a wider delivery outside off that spins further away.

    Now I can see why he might be more effective away from home, but against Steyn in swinging conditions, he looked all at sea. He looked absolutely clueless, just as bad as Hafeez. I just don't see how he can be the answer, unless he really improves his technique.

    Not only this, but his attitude towards fitness is lax, and he recently made a statement that losing weight made him lose his form, and that is why he's going back to his old diet. Hardly professional, and we can't afford donkeys in the field
     
  20. Ahson8
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    Ahson8 Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Jun 9, 2012
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    ^ I believe an inform Nasir is the second best opener in the country after Ahmed Shehzad
     
  21. Top Spinner
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    Top Spinner Tracer Bullet

    Feb 27, 2013
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    does not say much dude,Shzd himself average 34,nothing outstanding for the best opener in the country..
     
  22. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

    Sep 21, 2012
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    Based on what?
     
  23. Ahson8
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    Ahson8 Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Jun 9, 2012
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    Shehzad was a bit of a slow starter. I remember he was averaging 20 odd in ODIs not too long ago and he has brought it up to 34 by some consistent performances in the last few months.
    He's also started brilliantly in tests and is a very good T20 player

    His performances in ODI series in India, 97* vs Aus and 46 vs SA in SA test.
    An also importantly the other guys we've tried. Sharjeel is a hack and Kamran gets out after pretty 20's and 30's.
    Sami / Babar Azam could be better choices but they're untested so atm after Shehzad, an in form NJ is the best option we've got.
     
  24. Wistful Reminisces
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    Wistful Reminisces Banned

    Sep 21, 2012
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    His performances in India on swinging tracks were pretty good but he has not replicated that since then. His 97 was on a flat track, and his 46 was followed by failures. In short, unless he does really well in domestic, shouldn't be recalled based on supposed talent
     
  25. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    t20 mein sirf do batsman score kar den to kaam hojata hai n we need those batsmen rather than fielders who score nothing with the bat!
     
  26. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
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    i believe even out of form Nasir Jamshed is better batsman than Ahmed Shahzad. Ahmed is a gud decent batsman but in last 10 yrs Salman Butt aur Yasir Hameeed ke ilawa koi limited overs specially ka opener aaya hai to wo nasir jamshed hai test mein bhi nasir jamshed buhat tagra player hai Taufeeq Umar became a gud batsman in his comeback from 2010 to 2012
     
  27. Shahzad.Firdous
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    Shahzad.Firdous Cornered Tiger

    May 29, 2010
    12,035
    fielding has never been pakistans strong point but ab itne bhi bure nahi ke kamran akmal ko keeper bana de he was really superb in his first 5 yrs of career but his decline started before that sydney test!!
     
  28. Energy
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    Energy Cornered Tiger

    Apr 22, 2012
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    Sharjeel Khan will soon follow him.

    Still very much in favour of him seeing him back although you cannot blame the selectors for not picking him as he's looked completely out of sorts mentally. Yes we have to teach youngsters to value their wickets but not by making them scared of getting out.
     
  29. P.B
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    P.B Smooth Operator

    Sep 16, 2012
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    Lel

    Can't believe what has happened to Jamshed. :shrug
     
  30. Ahson8
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    Ahson8 Fantasy Draft Wins: 1

    Jun 9, 2012
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    In-form is the key word there :p
     
  31. Kashif
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    Kashif Pehlwaan

    Dec 27, 2009
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    He's going through a bad patch, looks unfit, can't field. Management were desperate to help him get back into form.
     

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